Big misunderstood about Chinese

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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Even after siege nerf still there is "crying " Chinese are still OP. And those people just never play Chinese but crying Chinese OP like they thought

I think I just doing a lesson to show you how Chinese really are. (Yes, sciences!)

So without landmark what the points of dynasty buff? It’s not like Chinese player wants it to be Sim city, but the dynasty system force to do so. If you saying this means that you never played Chinese.
Without those buff, how could you make advantage to fight other civs?
I could just go up to age 3 without dynasty buff, and than what is my advantages to get in age 3?
if compered with other civs?

Many in this forum mention about IO.Thinking they are OP .Yes they could taxing, X3 production , supervising store builds to get 20% extra resources. But IO are NOT superman to do all of these at the same time.

You cannot do both x3 production and 20% extra resources and tax collecting at same time!!!

IO would no helps to get extra 20% overall resources!! it would only get in supervised build, If villagers handing in somewhere else than you don’t have that boost. And IO do not Boost gathering Speed!!

Ah yes, taxing system. Many people criticize that you could sitting at home to get gold without mining. Ah yep you could, but tax do not just rise in the building to collect.
Basically there are 2 ways to increase tax in builds
1.store resources, gain 1 gold every time villagers hand in it.
2. produce unit/Tech( TC do not effect), based on cost of the unit/techs.
When tax in the builds its not like just get in your pocket, You needs to let IO go up there to collect it, and wait them back to TC to hand in it.
Every IO could get 20 gold at a time. It could upgrade to 40 with Imperial Academy Tech( 175 gold 50 foods 1min ) ALL 4 IO (600 resources, 80secs) could get 160 gold in 15 sec( not considering moving time and insufficient tax in the buildings). IT SOOOOO OP SOOOO COOLLLLL isn’t it?

So why you play mongol instead Chinese? Isn’t it way better than Mongol? :sweat_smile:

NOB, when enemy out of angle it would stop fire and cooling down immediately, even it just fired a single one small shot Block by walls, No damages in water. SOOOOO COOLLLLL isn’t it.

MAA in Chinese, Yep, running fast, they just cannot wait to seek death in the front battle. (LOW ARMOUR than other civs)

FL RIP

Zhuge nu: -1 -1 -1 , -1 -1 -1 no against amours boost. Useless after age2. Require 2 landmarks to unlock it ( 800 foods and 400 golds totally).

Grenadiers: Spamming Grenadiers? Well if you could survived that long with 2 age 4landmarks ( 4800foods 2400gold) in 1v1. I personally don’t reccommond to nerf them. Cuz after siege nerf Chinese would getting suck all the time. I think we should keep it like Exodia in Yu-Gi-Oh!. When you able to collect all five exodia’s cards you would auto win.

Okey landmarks:

BBQ SUN: BIG tower with hand cannon. Protect resources in early game.
Cool right? But why am I not choose another direction to attack if I going early rush especially in open map?

IA: X2 tax gain within around area. ( Sim city)

Clocktower: not op anymore after not able to be supervied.

Palace: villagers wallhack, Big scout tower.

SW: Only affect unique units ( Zhuge nu, FL ,Grenadiers) AROUND IT

Great wall?: I never build it. Not in 1V1

If you still thinking that Chinese are OP.
Why don’t you join them to get auto win?

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man with the respect do you need.

Is it real? We will see continued crying people long time enough? Just because they are now oblige to think when they launch a game on a RTS.

I’m main abbassid because il like to play underciv. yesterday i tryed chinese for fun. Seriously it’s good.

Your rushed by knight ? => IO on pikeman and you have more pikeman than knight in same time. You are rushed by english archer? => same with cav …
You go casstle with a good economy because you can easily farm stone in first age and have a second TC because with the supervision you have the perfect counter to blob people with nest of bee.

That sure to if you wanna spam archer like zhug nu against armored knight the problem don’t come from the game … it’s come from you and the basic mecaniks of this game wich is call counter unit.

So please stop crying chinese is a middle tier civ maybe a good one.

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@magicglace I suggest you to go like 50 rounds of Chinese 1v1.
Then we could discuss.

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I mean you don’t really have to take other opinions seriously especially in this forum. Like someone you quoted most people here consider him kinda a joke. It is true that most chinese critics here never play chinese or playing it at low elo, I once saw one of a famous chinese haters said that the chinese started with 7 vills so it is broken, sure man XD. And another said zhugu nu is effective against armored unit. I mean why would you take them seriously anyway, they are playing at low elo and only play a single civ, they are not very knowledgable, just a loud one, who have nothing to do but spamming in this forum.

Regarding the chinese nerf, it will affect your play if you are a chinese main, but still there are many other ways to play, for me Im a big fan of timing push fast castle when playing china (you can skip song (do it later) if not against HA rus), and I never have to rely on siege much before, so it is still manageable ig. But if you can’t accept the change I would suggest you try out something new there are several aspects from other civ that is close to playing chinese, e.g.

  • Fast production → go delhi (efficient production is cool, and you can boost more than the limited number of IO)
  • Booming eco → go HRE (far better than chinese booming)
  • Siege → go russ with high armory (cost-efficiency wise it is almost the same as china)
  • Siege spam → go abbasid or mongol, they can train siege on the field, with like less than 10 sec for mongonel, 5 sec for springald, and you also get mangonel which is a better version of NoB anyway XD
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I think what you said is great, I have doubts, each civilization has its own advantages, early aggression, economy, caravans. . . What did the Chinese have in the early days? Age III also doesn’t have any technological advantages. Because the dominant technology is in Age4. Another weaker landmark must be built with the same resources. Pay a high cost to get some advantages.

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Here the first pro game shows why China is still powerful even against HRE.

You are just playing wrong, relying entirely on siege. China still has the most broken units in the game. Fire lancers are still useful but people don’t think how to use them.

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Facts should be spoken with data.
Any theory that tries to prove that Chinese is strong cannot explain the low win rate of Chinese

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That is a bad example though. Even if we discount the fact that grubby is better with China than fritz is with HRE. This game HRE was totally out played. gave up map control and did not contest the relics. HRE just had 1 relic and got out boomed by China, only caught up in villager numbers at around 100 vills.

Chinese granadier army was worth more than twice the spears in terms of cost and thats not even counting the investment in terms of second landmark.

Sure china is decent when fully boomed and when left alone by the opponent and when fighting in a really closed map like this, mountain pass or black forest. But you really need a lot of conditions before china could be strong.

China would just be wiped in a map like dry Arabia or lipany or even semi closed maps.

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This was very helpful for me to understand the Chinese better.

And to add another perspective from someone with a slightly above average skill level, it really depends on how the enemy plays with Chinese to fully take out both its best and its worst. I mainly play Abbasid and faced a lot of Chinese factions and all I can say is that they don’t give me the panic attack the French or Mongols give me.

So I thought ‘‘let’s test them a little’’, played Chinese, sucked with it at first but it’s a really nice mechanic they have with the IO yet I cannot consider it the most overpowered because of their cost of production vs their long term efficiency and numbers. It’s what makes that whole mechanic balanced.

At first I thought their Zhuge is cool but then I remember the French Arbalétrier. What scares me however at Chinese are the Grenadiers as I’ve seen them in action during my games as both main force and support units and they deal a lot of damage unless you use the spread formation or Mangonels. Thank god they have higher cost, I could add the war of attrition to my strategy list.

Fire Lancers from all cavalry I’ve seen makes me think they are the weakest because most of their damage comes from a charge. I don’t know if micro play is necessary to inflict great damage but I handled them better than I handled Early Horsemen. Their description also makes me have no hope in using them ‘‘weak in melee combat’’ and essentially they almost always fight melee because they are a melee unit.

Nest of Bees is having a great area damage as a support siege and I made it rain on the french before with great satisfaction. Deals good damage when at least 5 are present.

So to me, they really feel ok and fighting them is always a pleasure.

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You said like HRE is a tier S civ even better than Mongol LOL.

Congratulations!!! You just find yourself another invincible trick by playing China!
Now please go use this trick to beaten those pro players XD.
Surely soon you would become NO.1 XD

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NOB is not weak according to its data. What really annoyed is that it would not fire when target moving out of its zoom. It would no tracking to finish the whole firing rounds instead of just stood there and start cooling down.

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老哥这是个BUG已经被记录了，预计下个补丁修复

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I believe there is another point many people had ignored.
How does each civ perform in different map?
What is the most important point that Chinese needs to be buff is its ability of survival in opened map which is pretty poor after the nerf on firelancer.
But in the meantime, Chinese still perform well in closed map, especially in the later ages. That is why someone believe this civ still OP after last nerf.
Those modifications about siege are good, however that is means you should modify Chinese, which is one of the most maladjusted civ deeply rely on its siege to make it be able to survive on opened map.

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I know but a lot of players are butthurt that china can’t be aggressive against passive civs like HRE and they can out-boom china collecting relics etc.

You can either go fast castle or try to contest map control. You can’t do both. China went for map control. With 2 TC + Song dynasty it wasnt too hard to catch-up. If HRE players is trying to contest map control he is losing every second. The more you can delay HRE relics the harder it becomes for HRE to play late game.

So does the HRE.

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Are you kidding me?
Plz tell me where is HRE and Chinese. This is the top players show.

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I guarantee you Chinese got nerf wasn’t because of the few crying about it in this forum.

I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not. HRE is at the bottom of the list at 1400+.

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Here, so what Grubby have to say about china ? Its ■■■■ MY February 2022 TIERLIST - RIP Chinese... | AoE4 | Grubby - YouTube

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Why are all the pro players now listing them as the worst civ last on tier list now? Lol…

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Trash civ won both games.
image

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