Boyars instead of Paladin as an Eastern Europe regional unit?

  • With Dynasties of India the Elephant Archer became a regional unit for Bengalis, Dravidians, and Gurjaras.
  • The Eagle Warrior is a regional unit for Aztecs, Incas and Mayans.
  • Battle Elephants are regional units for Bengalis, Burmese, Dravidians, Khmer, Malay, Vietnamese.
  • Steppe Lancers are regional units for Cumans, Mongols, Tatars.
  • And with Return of Rome the Dromon a regional ship for Armenians, Byzantines, Goths, Huns, Romans.
  • Persians have the unique Paladin “Savar”.

I wonder if the Boyar would be a great regional unit for South-Eastern Europe where Boyars actually existed, as a replacement for the Paladin.

Boyar have more melee armor but are slower than Knights.

The regional civs could be: Slavs, Bulgarians, Serbs and Vlachs.

In these 4 countries had the Boyar as a social class. The boyars were wealthy, land-owning nobles who held significant sway over political and economic matters. They served as a counterbalance to the ruler’s power but could also be quite factional, sometimes leading to periods of instability due to in-fighting or absolute control of the ruler due to him taking advantage of their in-fighting.

Their peak was influence was during: Kievan Rus, Second Bulgarian Empire, Serbian Empire, Medieval Wallachia and Moldavia.

Bulgarians would be very difficult to balance due to their +33% faster attack for cavalry. There is also the issue of Cavalier.

10 Likes

I was about to like the idea but then I saw you are trying to sneak in more European civs. Honestly we have enough of it. Can we please stop?

8 Likes

The only way to make the Boyars a regional unit without those civs, is to give Paladin to Bulgarians, which would make their their +33% faster attack for cavalry a really big issue. And then it would be Slavs & Bulgarians with this unit. Which would work and be cool, but fundamentally change the Bulgarians.

Honestly, can you please respect other people’s ideas even if you disagree?

Some people like European civs next, some people like East Asian civs next. But everytime there is an European DLC-like topic there’s is guaranteed that at least 1 East Asian civ fan is going to come to the European topic and say “this sucks”. And you are one of the chill examples other East Asia fans are even worse. Where as I haven’t seen Europe fans going on the East Asian civ threads and doing the same as them.

So can you please be as respectful as the people who want European civs?

I respect your idea as stated in the topic. But please stick to it in the description as well. Make a separate topic for the separate idea (that is new civs)

1 Like

Maybe in 2030 when Serbs and Vlachs are actually added in the game.

There’s plenty of Balkan DLC topics about adding the Vlachs and Serbs. This topic is not about that, it’s only about making the Boyar a regional unit. Which if Vlachs and Serbs are added they could have the Boyar as a regional unit. Otherwise the Boyar could be a regional unit only for Slavs and Bulgarians but the Bulgarians’ bonus is going to have to be changed.

Your focus should be on discussing what will be the new Slav Unique Unit and how will it be balanced if Boyar is made Regional. But that doesn’t look like your priority.

3 Likes

I won’t mind Vlachs with Slavs renaming/reworking into Rus/Ruthenians. But that’s about it.

2 Likes

You missed lithuanians.I doubt serbs had a boyar social class.

This Idea is not new and has been suggested multiple times in the past.Even if no other civs are added lithuanians bulgarians slavs having this is more than enough.it will also fix the odd reason of lithuanians having paladin.

Other ideas could be to replace the champion with varangian guards for vikings byzantines slavs.
Give some unique trade ship to slavs and bulgarians(both used the same rivers for trade).

3 Likes

I’ve thought about this before, but the way I always imagined it was that boyars would replace the knight line completely. In Castle Age you can train boyars at the stable instead of knights, and in Castle Age you can upgrade them to elite boyars. So would be a knight/cavalier replacement, since these civs don’t get paladins anyway.

I don’t really know how it would play out, balance-wise. I think they’d be strong (maybe too strong) in Castle Age, weak in early Imperial (since the elite boyar upgrade is much more expensive than the cavalier upgrade), then stronger again once the elite upgrade came in. I think they’d need a longer training time and maybe a price increase.

This is one of the only two Euro DLCs i’d like to see (along with a Barbarian invasion DLC) and I think reworking Boyars as a regional unit would slot perfectly into said Slavs/Balkans DLC.

Maybe i’m biased but I have no problem with the two ideas being tied together.

1 Like

One of the guys on the wiki had the idea of the Boyar being a separate regional unit that functions similarly to the Camel Rider, being an anti-cavalry cavalry unit. I think the main distinction should be that while the Camel Rider wins through cost efficiency and bonus damage, the Boyar wins through population efficiency due to its melee armor.

1 Like

Obviously they need to go through some changes just like Elephant Archer.

1 Like

I agree, but I think they need to stay distinct from knights – otherwise this basically becomes a knight reskin. Teutons’ knights in particular are already quite similar, with bonus melee armour but lower speed.

Yeah, of course.

True. However i don’t really see a problem to that. Cost, training time, attack, attack speed, HP, PA all can be considered.

If the boyar does become a regional unit the below can be a good uu for the slavs.

The main way to use the Sulits was throwing at the enemy. Depending on the mass and speed, such a weapon could break through the enemy’s light defense, or at least get stuck in it. The infantryman could carry several gangs and some other weapon, which expanded his combat capabilities. The use of the witch as a spear was not excluded, but its effectiveness was limited by objective factors.

A quick redesign.

Cost: 60f/70g → 50f/80g
Training time: 15 sec → 28 sec
HP: 100, 130 → 100, 150
Armor: 4/2, 8/3 → 4/2, 6/3
Attack: 12, 14 → 10, 14
Upgrade cost and time: 1000f/600g and 60 sec → 1250f/800g and 200 seconds.

Rest are unchanged.

2 Likes

Too strong should be more like 3/2 and elite 4/3 or 5/3 and its speed is little slower than knight line.

I think it’s always difficult to judge this kind of thing (or at least, I find it difficult). The high melee armour in Castle Age could be quite oppressive in some situations, but I think it’s important to retain it to preserve the unit’s identity.

“Gangs”? “Witch”? I assume this text was originally in Russian or something, and has got garbled in translation.

Sulits is the word I wanted to highlight.

Unit name can be Sulits thrower similar to frankish uu or Sulits warrior similar to eithopian or malay uu.