This topic is made to talk about the british people, many people asked me for this topic, so here it is!
british needs to buff Greenwich to make it a valuable addition to the deck.
I actually like to use it on Tycoon Mode(Yes, I know nobody plays Tycoon Mode) since I don’t need military cards, it can give Britain quite an edge on games with a short time limit.
I always want the manor to be deletable.
would be too strong with new settler spawning everytime one is constructed
There is always a way to avoid this.
Simply prohibiting deletion is lazy.
The eternal civ tier A that always barely touches the tier S.
The objection is always the vil with the house. People simply can’t look past it. They feel they are being cheated somehow. That it costs more and takes longer to build is not in the equation to them.
I complained about the Deli cav to an ott player and he said Brits were lame because of the free vil. All ott vils are free!!! People just have ideas that they can’t move past.
Brits can be outboomed by several civs and have tougher unit composition and upgrade pathing. They aren’t weak because their primary units are good but the vil isn’t what props them up.
Yes, it is. Try to play vs a british in a 20min treaty and have a look on the score. Maybe adding a traintime on the manor haouse would be enough
Treaty is not what I’m talking about. I’ve played one treaty game in 17 years
a) You have to readjust the creation time of the rockets and the amount they give you for the buff they gave it, for me they had a bad approach in trying to make it like a real cannon instead of making it a little more different,
b) A British dedicated to cattle is very strong with their respective letter on which the limit of cattle increases, that is a bug that has not been fixed
c) Since they have ruined the starts with tp they should buff other age 1 cards to see if it can vary with different strategies
d) revert the nerf to the long bow I did not understand this nerf, the unit is weak at age 2 you have to have a very good mass for the longbow to stand out and finally it becomes strong with the card in third age 2 the longbow is a bit rubbish
I agree that we are focusing too much on the manors like it is a straight civ win, but I think the manors are a big reason for the dominance of the British. But British got a great eco and good military units+cards, which may give them the title of “always A tier, but never really S tier”.
If you manor boom: You often do not send the virgina company, so you pay 135w/manor. But it is not “35w for a settler”, because as a non british/japanese/swede/inca, you have no reason to make 20 houses early in the game. When the British player who manor boom has 15 houses, he maybe only has 60pop. A regular civ maybe only build 7 houses. And it takes 20s per manor, so lets say +10w, so ~145w per additional manor. So the British players actually has +15 settlers at the cost of 145w x8 + 35w x7 = 1405w, minus the wood gatheed by the spawning settlers.
If the created settler directly gather wood and a single settler build all manors starting from minute 4, we finish the last house around minute 9 and gather save ~1050w. So with this setting, at minute 9, we got +15 settlers and have a deficit of 400w.
So the question is, what can other civs achieve at minute 9 with such an investment ?
We can get a similar eco with Dutch by making 4 banks between minutes 5 and 7. 1450w feels like 3 banks, and investing in one more bank brings a similar eco at minute 9. Two problems though:
- A bank is expensive and makes it hard to do military at the same time
- Banks forces you into gold heavy units, so it is not as flexible as settlers.
As Portuguese at minute 9, you probably got 1 more TC working for under 4 minutes, and can produce 9 or 10 settlers. With the starting settler and the Feitoria card on soon to be 3 TCs, you are a couple if settlers behind for much smaller investment.
As Japanese, you are probably already at 20 shrines, which gives a similar eco for a cheaper investment. Problems though:
- you need deer to be as good
- shrines are easier to siege down.
French produced maybe 16 settlers and with cards are around 28 settlers, so an equivalent of 7 extra settlers for the cheap investment of 320f minus the continous bonus of settler difference. Overall they are ahead in resources but will quickly fall behind and cannot outboom British, they need to do damage.
Overall, of course some civs can compete but it is hard for many civs (French, Chinese, Indian, Spanish, Incas, …) to outboom British, as British boom is usually safer, better, smoother, or more flexible. Nit always straight better (ex. Ports and Dutch can do well), but British are never far behind while always having a good advantage to compensate.
This is obviously normal as some civs are better at booming and others better at rushing, and British are more of a booming civ.
PS: I am not a very good player, so if someone has better numbers for number of manors at 10 minutes, realistic age up times, bank timings, etc for an “average supremacy game”, I’d gladly take them to update to booming comparison and figure out how good the manor eco is in practice in high level games.
Mmm, it is and it isnt. It gets difficult when you put it all together. You also have longbows that cost wood - normally bad but kinda handy in this strat - so you have a pretty convenient macro for putting down houses for a 4-5 vill lead while aging up, and between shipments making pikes/longbows for def and then running away with the lead.
You mentioned the Otto free vill mechanic and you might have had a point if Ottos had the Mosque Construction card in age 1 but as is, its in age 3. Virginia Company is age 1 - how much does that matter? Well, you get cheaper, vill spawning houses that enable a turtle boom that can get you 35 vils and 150 pop at 6-7 min. If Ottos go nuts on wood early on, get a TP, the vil production techs, send 8 vils they still cant pull that - best 1 ever did was 26 at 6 min. Not to mention that the free vils give no exp so blowing wood on mosque/tp is pretty much law on that civ.
Brits get alot of cards for musks, grens, huss, and goons, but really none of those units are all that scary even in treaty. Their maxed out eco is also pretty generic. With the beginning and the end being pretty reasonalbe, its really only the sharp acceleartion thats a problem - its not that they have a glaring weakness to cover like other civs, Brits are consistently strong and flexible, so having a similar booming potential to riskier civs is kinda off.
A better comparison might be with the Ports before the fietoria . They end up with similarly powerful muskets and goons, got good water options, and good land boom potential either way. The whole extra TC might demand more food, but its still a whole 'nother TC with all the defensive and eco benefits implied. Still, the extra food was such a hurdle early on that the ports ended up weaker for a loooong time.
in treaty the british eco is very strong because of cowing.
its nothing special in supremacy though.
what longbow nerf? 20characters
I believe they lost 1 ranged damage recently; 16 down from 17.
Also, brits get villager shipments too
Me neither, Im saying that Brits can easily have factories, age V and military upgrades faster than any civ by a lot
The balance at a specific point in time aside, the main thing that irritates me about Brits are longbows. Or rather mechanics behind the shooting.
Longbows are my fav unit in AoE II, I understand they fit well in 1350 and not 1750 and wouldn’t argue (too hard) for buffing them, but they’re just not super fun and smooth to use. Attack speed is one thing, but attack animations, target acquisition, and cooldown resets when changing targets and moving…
I know it won’t change, seems these mechanics are buried deep down in the general code, but still, it’s a bit annoying.
It’s fine when using for example Arrow Knights vs. slower (moving and firing) artillery, not to mention attacking buildings when it’s decked out with extra cards and upgrades, including Scorched Earth (+50% siege attack), but archers vs. infantry/cav always have been a bit lacking for my taste.
For all issues I might have with IV, it nails archery very well. Yeah models, animations, textures, effects, gore&destruction are far from stunning visually, but the feeling of combat is great. Especially early on when things are slower, there’s no artillery around etc; archer units shine and feel cool.
Used their profile icon for the longest time.
the best way to use longbows is to click and let go and not try to kite micro them.
its more about setting up favorable positions and knowing to stand your ground, after that its usually easy going