Saracens Galley buff is not strong enough in a world with Fire Galleys in Feudal, and Ports Ship HP and Gold discount bonii are both too short, when compared to what you can do with Vikings (a lot more Ships) or Italians (very fast teching).
This is exactly the reason why italians and vikings need nerfs. And if you think saracens and portuguese are just as strong as other civs with no water bonuses my only aswer is that you aren’t enough experienced on water maps.
They do not. Rather, ut is Ports, Koreans and Berbers that need buffs to Water play.
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Give me a single reason why, and not one which is obviously wrong.
Nerfing top civs is the lazy version of balancing and they are not overpowered. The other water civs are just underwhelming
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You guys can’t understand, can you? Are you literally telling that vikings or italians are not overpowered versus a random civ? And why call something lazy if it is simply the better option to do with much more advanatages and less work?
To open up Water play, and we get a bigger Water Meta roster.
Just like not all civs are viable on Arabia, not all civs should be viable in Water maps.
I would rather have strong Water civs that specialize in Water maps, than have all civ¡s Water play be iron balanced and boringly samey.
We already have Arabia (open map) Meta civs, Arena and Black Forest (closed map) Meta civs.
Why not Water Map Meta civs?
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Do you think that if we nerf vikings and italians then every civ would be the same regarding water? Because you’re literally telling that. There will stilll remain lot’s of water civs.
You will never pick random on water. I meant they are not overpowered/ridiculoiusly OP compared to Koreans/Portuguese/Japanese/Malay/Saracens/Berbers.
Giving Saracens and Berbers Shipwright is much easier than rework the whole Italian civilization
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Then why call my solution lazy??? Full of contradiction.
And do you think it is better if a group civs are ridiclulously op against an other group of civs rather than not?
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Maybe not, but Water gameplay would be incredibly boring.
Water play is already behind from what you can do with Land maps, so it migh aswell as be radically different amongst dedicated Water civs.
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Completely disagree, water is one of the most fun and diverse maps for me. But its just my opinion. But the fact is: we have much more advantages of nerfing italians and vikings instead of buffing the “weak” water civs
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Yes, it’s definitely better. We need 10 usable civs to make the water meta LESS boring.
Giving Saracens and Berbers Shipwright is definitely what they need.
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It is just Fire Galley rushes in Feudal, and mass War Galley/Galleon later on, for any baseline civ.
No Walls, no Towers, no resource nodes to control…
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I just cant understand. If we nerf vikings and italians, there would still be only 2 useable civs or what???
Mostly yes, and Water play would just become a snorefest.
Well if you always play meta its for sure boring. Its the player who should make the game interesting not only the devs.
Basically Khmer-Vietnamese in RoR
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OMG all landmaps are a snorfest because nearly every civ is the same good and the top tier civs are only a little better!!!
LETS BUFF AZTECS AND MAYANS AND CHINESE, HUNS AND VIKINGS PLEASE! WE NEED LESS BORING PLAY AND MORE OP CIVS!!
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The right way to play, if you want to win?
There are 4 combat units on water too, not much you can do with that, unless the bonii and UTs are strong or change up gameplay a lot.
Nope!
Trash civs, Camel civs, Knight civs, Archer civs, Cav Archer civs, Infantry civs, Mass Militia civs, all the different Land UUs, Siege civs, Treb civs, Monk civs, Elephant civs…
Tatars and Mongols are buth Cav Archer and Siege civs, but play nothing alike on Land.
On the other hand, Berbers and Saracens on Water is basically a Mirror Match.