Buff the weakest civilizations, making match ups against others more balanced.
Preserve most civilizations’ strengths, weaknesses and identity, while giving them new strategic options or making usual ones more viable.
Inca’s identity
Weakness: They lack a consistently strong eco bonus and do not have any particularly strong military option, making them a quite generic civilization in some situations.
Strength: It is a very versatile civilization, with a broad tech tree for the most common units as well as many other unique options (having eagles, slingers, kamayuks).
Suggested changes for Inca:
Eagle warriors cost -5 gold in castle age, -10 gold in imperial age.
In line with the civilization’s identity, this buffs their infatry, their versatility and makes double gold unit compositions even more viable. It also gives another edge in terms of eagle play compared to aztecs and mayans: Arguably aztecs will still have the strongest eagle play in castle age, Mayans will still have the strongest eagles in post-imp, Incas will have the weakest but cheapest eagles. This is also a balanced buff which does not favour that heavily all-in castle age push (which can sometimes be very strong), given that it is gold and not food cost reduction, and it is only a 10%.
This change is good
I like the idea, but needs fine tuning
This change is bad
0voters
Incas start with two free lamas
Small buff where Incas still have a weak economy, but helps making their early game a bit smoother.
This change is good
I like the idea, but needs fine tuning
This change is bad
0voters
Goths’ identity
Weakness: Very generic economy, one-trick civilization with bad military options besides infantry.
They also do not shine against other civs with good infantry options.
Strength: Insanely strong infantry play in late game, provided they boom and get to their ideal composition.
Suggested changes for Goths:
Fletching cost reduced to 0 (requires Blacksmith). Being a tech you almost always want to go for, this makes Goth’s feudal age, where they virtually have no bonus, much stronger. Saves 150 resources early and helps setting agression much faster, while you still have to make the decision to invest in an early blacksmith. Goths’ go-for strategy will still be the late game infantry spam; this -quite strong- buff helps them getting there and being more versatile at the stage of the game where they are weakest and usually fall too far behind.
For Incas, I would rather replace Andean Sling with a tech that makes Eagles cost -30% gold, then change their team bonus to give each team-mate a free llama, and as a new farm bonus, Incan Melee units get +3 pierce armor while standing on a farm. Then you also need to add an Elite Slinger upgrade.
Not for Incas. Incas does have good eco bonus. Free llama and 10 pop house help pretty much in dark age. Eagle scout is also better for early scouting. Tower rush has received nerf a lot but still viable for Incas with discount and eagle scout. Its true they dont have strong power unit. But they do above average to counter nearly everything else.
Hi, I understand that these 2 civs have been very relegated in the game, however, and although I agree with the 2 llamas (with some doubt).
I think that the Incas should get these changes, which I consider more focused on their civ:
Change Infantry Civilization by defensive and infantry civilization
Start with a free llama.
Villagers are affected by infantry blacksmith upgrades starting in feudal age.
Houses support 10 population.
Castles and towers cost +25%
Lumber camp upgrades are free (require lumber camp)
Unique units - Kamayuk and Slinger.
Unique technologies:
Andean Sling, is the same.
Panaka (the name is interesting to me and it was that family formed by all the descendants of the Inca, it was the royal lineage)(Kamayuk gold cost replaced by food; kamayuk, slingers and eagle warriors +1/+2 armor).
Team bonus: is the same.
in the tech tree:
Barracks: Remove Arson.
Siege Workshop: Remove Siege Ram.
Dock: Remove Galleon and add Heavy Demolition Ship.
University: Add Architecture and remove Keep.
Monastery: Add Fervor.
leave the rest as it is.
To the goths I would give the following changes: Infantry Civilization by Infantry and Siege Civilization
Ok someday we seriously gotta discuss the fascination people have with giving Incas the weirdest situational bonuses for their farms. Like is everyone dreaming to build forward farms or something?
Civ maluses don’t really fit in AoE2
That’s a Burmese bonus
Lmao what? This right there would instantly become the best unit in the game by a huge margin.
None of this makes sense. You’re nerfing them on water for some reason, they have no issue with their monk techs and no siege ram makes sense only because you gave them infinite kamayuks. So basically you nerf the civ but give them a broken unit in post imp, that’s not helping.
Ok so why is this a siege civ? Having siege ram + siege onager but no bonus nor siege engineers is anything but a siege civ.
Also Goths don’t need more pierce armour on their infantry since they have huskarls, and no blast furnace is worse in melee than -1 armour. Those changes together actually nerf Goths against buildings, on top of making them even easier to kill with champion spam. Also having faster ships doesn’t matter if you get blocked by stone defenses anyway so that’s yet another nerf.
What? Oh my god, no. Do you know how strong Kamayuks are!! Also, renaming it to defensive and infantry civ while removing Arson and Keep is puzzling. Siege Ram is also kinda required for Meso civs, because outside of Trebuchets they don’t have that strong building clears. Y’know, no gunpowder. Removing Arson makes it even worse. xD
In general though, I think Incas are sort of fine, with perhaps changing only their team bonus to an actually useful farm bonus, or replace it entirely with a Trade bonus to give them a better use in teamgames.
I don’t quite understand this… but I suppose you are referring to the rising cost of stone for castles and towers. Okay, we could take out the castles and keep the cost for the towers, it’s just to make it harder to attack early with villagers and towers that made this a broken civilization.
And… we can’t repeat it?
not necessarily, remember that there are many unique strong units, samurai, cataphracts. the one that does not cost gold only equates them to a halberdier. We could slow him down and equate the kamayul with the knight of the Teutonic order. It is only a problem in imperial and if you only create the cavalry line.
and if it seems too much to add armor to them, removing that and leaving only the gold cost per food of the kamayuk is enough.
with the changes that I propose and having arson, in that case they would be op. ok we can leave the siege rams.
In the case of the galleon, it seems to me that it makes this civ more offensive in water. I propose a defensive civ, so I add the demolition ship and remove the galleon.
On the other hand I don’t think you can spam kamayuks like a goth does. Kamayuk are only created in the castle.
Okay, let’s leave infantry civilization then. By giving it more armor for the infantry and cavalry I am accentuating its strengths, but if I also added blast furnace the huskarl would be better than a jaguar warrior without the garland wars upgrade, and that would be op. In addition to itself it is very difficult for you to beat a goth with champion spam because the goth produces them faster, the huskarl loses hand in hand with the champions today and will continue to lose in the future.
As for dry dock, I’m more interested in +10 units than speed.
It is only an opinion to make changes not to simply nerf or buff the civ, I think it should be balanced and this implies removing and adding things and not just removing or adding.
Arson is a technology that would make this civ even stronger, based on what I’m proposing. Reply to cactus over kamayuk so no need to repeat. Keep is only the ultimate upgrade for towers in imperial age so if you play go towers with incas in feudal it doesn’t matter.
The team bonus of the Incas is good, of course if you are in their team and you are Poles or Slavs, these are the civs that would take advantage of that bonus, they are the ones that I remember for now… maybe as a team bonus they could give their Slinger unit to your team.
Finally, I agree that we could leave the siege rams.
Reasonable changes, though it doesnt change the fact that Incas are still going to be played as a generic Eagles Civ with no strategic edge, you didn’t increase the viablity of their Unique Units that none makes pretty much, the easy way to buff Incas is just Mayanizing them, giving them eco bonuses (Llamas and gold discount), avoiding dealing with the bigger issue.
Again, just worse, you avoid dealing with the realy problem, Goths late-game is way over the top, while their early game is a generic desert, how do you solve this single dimensionalism? Free Fletching just pushes them further into being the new Portuguese (the most boring meta civ, too generic) rather than finding an elegant way to introduce Infantry into the mid-game while nerfing their late-game slightly.
Kamayuks shred Infantry and Cavalry both when you mass them. Removing Gold cost (and with Fabric Shields), they’ll also have an okay PA so with a purely Food cost you can spam them against Archers as well. The only limiting factor for them are Castles, which already produce Kamayuks pretty fast. They would literally become the strongest trash unit in the game, one that counters Infantry and Cavalry and in reasonable mass, also destroy buildings. (Though, you are removing Arson so I guess that’s not a worry.)
Wait, so I initially thought you just miswrote it, but you want to make it a civ bonus that…towers and Castles cost more? Like, why? What? They aren’t getting any bonuses for their stone buildings otherwise, and then they definitely shouldn’t have the defensive part if their towers/castles cost more. Feudal boxing vills were fine, people just didn’t want to play against a disruptive style.
Besides, towers would still be able to be made with vills on stone to circumvent the +25% stone cost, so it wouldn’t alleviate the problem regardless.
instead i would like that the turks have a buff, they dont have anything in thrash units exept light cavalier upgrades, i would like to see they have the pikemen upgrade, this helps a lot in early game