I see some compare this feature as others that have been added in HD and than in DE such as Multi queue, farm queue, shift clicking etc. All those whyle changing the gameplay aim at optimising players APM that is better spent on different actions and make the game more fast. Here the problem is with the added information exactly what others have pointed out (visual mods vs data mods).
Lets make clear smth else. This feature is added not because MS or FE think its good for the game but because they know there is absolutely no way to restrict using such mods like mandana or whatever is called. This applies for competative settings. If you think buildings range and even some visual mods should be restricted in high level tournaments they cant be. Unless it is a LAN event and we have one such thing per year if we are lucky. Online nothing can be done to restrict using such mods. If you watch an expert streamer who is using range of visual and data mods during streams you must be damn sure he would use them in highly cometative settings. If an organiser says it s not allowed to use said mod but he cant really check what players are using all he does is allow some players who decide to "cheat"and use these things regardless have advantage over the est of the players. That is the reason this thing is now added as MS/FE know they can do nothing to restrict such mods.
I guess if the devs really wanted to, they could make a feature to allow checking for what mod was used during games. Itâs not like MS doesnât know how to collect data (but on a more serious note, if the game can detect that you made 10 camels during a game, I donât see how collecting activated mods would be impossible)
Its about the resources spent one way or another. I dont know how possible or easy it would be for them but most certainly as it stands now its much easier to imlement such feature than to develop a tool that tracks all mods. Further it doesnt make sence to only imlement it for competations as noone in their right mind would loose time to do it for everyday ranked games while high level competitions are much more scarce.
PS. To your sugestion if they âreallyâ wanted they may be could or may be could not because devs have bosses that allocate resources and time spent on the game. It certainly turned out giving in to mod users a more practical decision.
I think the primary emphasis of this discussion should be the fairness and consistency of ruling (that all visual mods have never been banned) rather than subjective opinions of gameplay improvement. However, since there is so much discussion about it, I will give an argument in support of range indicatorsâ value of reducing luck in the game:
Consider a player attempting to move units close to a castle.
Next, consider a time window sufficiently short for there to be significant degree of luck involved in that player switching to those units, tasking them near the castle, and switching back to perform another task.
This player may be skilled at this range guessing, but that will only change the duration of the time window that we are talking about. If the player is unskilled, the time window will be longer. If skilled, shorter.
In this sufficiently short time window, the determining factor in whether the units live or catastrophically die is now pure luck. There is no strategy or tactics involved (the playerâs intent was to task the archers outside the castleâs firing range), simply the luck of how many pixels did the mouse pointer move.
What can the player do about this?
They can accept the luck and do nothing - this seems suboptimal by increasing the blind luck of the game.
They can allocate additional time to the task - this is suboptimal by spending additional time to implement the same intent that was implemented with less time, thus leaving other intents unimplemented.
They can git gud - This only moves the bar about how much time is sufficiently short. The situation is unchanged, only at a shorter time frame.
For the sake of discussion, letâs say range indicator deletes this luck entirely within this time frame. 100% of the time, the player sent his archers where intended without sending them under castle range.
The result of this situation is identical to the âallocate additional timeâ above, given sufficiently additional time.
The only difference is that now, the luck is removed without taking away other strategic and tactical options from the player. Reducing luck makes the game more strategic and tactical.
Now, what about those who are skilled in this aspect? It is true, that having this skill reduces the time of the luck window described above. But simply because âwe had to do it this wayâ doesnât mean it is productive to ensure others do. That is hazing mentality. If we can reduce blind luck in the game, we should, regardless of whether they âdid it the way we didâ.
I know that a lot of people care about the pro scene here, but also throwing in an opinion about LEL games. Noobs often canât judge the range of buildings very accurately, including TCs very well, so this mod actually gives a pretty big (and arguably, unfair) advantage for feudal attackers on low levels.
The devs changed nothing. They took what was already an optional feature fully supported through its inclusion in the in-game mod store, and moved it to be an optional feature supported through the in-game options.
Ironically, their feature is objectively worse than the existing mod, so they actually changed nothing.
Ok, fair. I thought no one would want that feature as I find it very distracting and fairly ugly, but if you like the colored circles, go for it. What I meant by objectively worse is that they use circles rather than rounded rectangles (the actual building range), which makes the official range indicator give false information.
I can see why (mostly pro) players dont like these changes. Also other visual mods werent accepted in the past at their release. Also they had some controversy around them. Look at the threads about downloading the small tree mods in 2010 at aoezone.net. You found disclaimer by the publishers like
Also in the reactions you see some people claiming that the small tree mods is cheating. You can even find threads about players that want to use the mod, but they want to make sure that they dont get banned at Voobly, because the mod gives you an unfair advantages.
After a while more and more players adapted the mods. Nowadays there is no controversy at all about using a small tree mod. No one will consider that mod as cheating. Most players, especially at higher level, can play without this mod any more. The benefits are just too big to play without it anymore.
The same will happen with the range indicators. Now we have some contraversy. We already have seen this in the past with the release of the age of mandala mods. But in the end people just adopt to the new visuals. The contraversy will settle down and everyone just get used to using the mod.
The only real big issue is that the ingame tool is much worse then the Age of mandala mods. The circles in the ingame tool arent right. The devs really need to fix that part of the ingame tool.
No. The issue is also that it changes the gameplay altogether. This kind of change makes forwards much easier, as you can easily check the range of buildings to avoid, where to/not to place your tower etc. This usually happens only after a certain amount of game experience. Now you get it right off the bat by clicking a button.
I get it that it already makes no difference after a certain level, but it feels like it does more harm than good overall for low level gameplay.
But this is bad, it makes games on low levels harder than they need to be. Thereâs no progression of skill, no feeling of achievement that you get better at the game, besides altering how forwards will progress. Iâm just not a fan of these kind of changes.
See, youâre probably experienced, as I remember you mentioning that youâre around since voobly. It must have taken you time to get a âfeelâ for the range of TCs, towers and castles. It means that as a beginner you were unlikely to have perfect ability to avoid running into a tc, or into a castle. It was unlikely that your forward towers had just the perfect placement to range the gold and not be seen by your enemy etc. Now this stuff is instantly possible, no learning needed.
Making decision is a skill. If noobs can make better decision, then there is a progression of skill.
I think you over estimate lower rated players. By just having the range indicator they wont have godlike decision making. They will still make lots of silly mistakes. So they still need to go through the learning curve. They only get some help, so they will learn the things more quickly.
I am against auto everything. I think you still need to play the game. This means you are still the one that needs to make the decisions and do all the actions. If i look to visual mods, then they dont have anything to do with auto everything. So i support these changes. With these changes we make the game more accessable for newer players, which only makes the game more popular. I would say that changes as auto scout and the auto farm seed needs to be more controversial then the range indicator. I would even support range indicators for units as well.
These are also some good visual changes. Mainly the upgrade overlay makes much sense to me. It reminds newer players to do the upgrades. Even the pros sometimes forgot some upgrades. Having a visual reminder for these likes these are all fine in my opinion.
I am only waiting for the next inventions⊠auto-queue villagers, auto-micro archers, auto-quickwall drushâŠ
I am sure that low level players will still make decisions that are bad, going forward on a bad build order, or placing tower that doesnât deny anything etc, but I think this change has too strong effect, and makes defensive play on low levels a lot harder. But I would like to see an opinion from a <1500 rated player to see what they think.
These are all not possible for visual mods. As result these things arent a good comparison. I even said i am against auto everything. So i am also against these suggestions.
I bad player is still a bad players after this change. But at least they have more tools to try and improve. I dont think very much will change. A 800 elo players might reach 1000 elo. But that is all. At some point they will reach a barrier and they need to look for other things to improve to get an higher elo and really improve their game play. Just this change wont change the 800 elo player into a 1600 elo player.
(but on a more serious note, if the game can detect that you made 10 camels during a game, I donât see how collecting activated mods would be impossible)