Burgundian Vineyards

Now, getting gold out of this tech was very strong for a Castle Age tech, particularly on Arena where it gave you a much prolonged supply of gold to spam Paladin/BBC etc.

But after the nerf, spending 400f 300g to get a trickle of gold hardly seems worth it, iirc it’s something like 1 Relic every 15-20 farms, and it takes a long time to generate enough gold to break even (let’s say you average 40 farms between castle age and early Imp, then it’s basically 2 relics generating gold, which is like 800g every 25 min or something like that, now my math could be off because I cbb to pull the exact generation rates but you get the idea).

Maybe lower the cost of the tech to 200f 200g, or make the trickle 1.5x the speed at the current cost, currently it seems the tech isn’t worth researching because of how long it takes to break even (and it takes even longer to create an advantage with it).


I think the tech is quite good. Burgundian don’t have any bonus to trash. They would suck in that state of game. Now they get a few relics bonus gold with 60-80 imperial farmers thaz keeps them competitive on long games.

That’s the point of the tech and I think it delivers on that.

The UT might not be worth it in Castle age, but that’s imo fine and the price is too of you see it as a post imp tech you pick up for trash wars.


then it should be an Imperial Age tech, shouldn’t it? There seems to be little point in the tech, considering it is a CASTLE AGE tech and requires you to spend 650 stone, compare that to other Castle Age techs like Howdah or Anarchy, those give you an IMMEDIATE benefit and not one you can see the fruits of in 40 min.

I don’t see why that would be necessary. Not everything has to be optimized.

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the OP is 100% right.
1st this is not a Castle age tech
2nd this is not enough for an Imperial age tech.

Burgundians need a new Castle age tech, probably military related. maybe some bonus to their cavalry.

Burgundians also need to rework flemish revolution. I say to stop converting vils to flemish militia, maybe convert all infantry to flemish militia then allow training at tcs

IMO, the devs won’t change this from the Burgundians, Flemish Revolution will stay in the game. Very similar as the Sicilians have the bonus reduction damage

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Obsidian Arrows was removed and replaced, Scutage as well, there’s chance to change the silly flemish rev at once.
As for the Sicilians, they just need to get rid of Bloodlines and then their cavaliers are fine.

No just allow villagers to be turned into flemish militia rather than than turning all at once and then the tech is fine.

imagine how bad they will be vs cav civs…

cool yeah lets buff brokundians! /s

Because making this tech actually affordable would be such a bad thing. And sorry but Burgundians are a tier at best now and that was before the recent nerf.


It’s fine if the tech takes a long time to be useful, because Burgundians already have earlier cav upgrades and eco upgrades for short term advantages, and they also happen to have bonused relics anyway. Heck, being able to have some gold trickle even if you missed all relics is quite good.


A civ with Halbs (with all upgrades) isn’t a hopeless civ vs cavalry

I think with 60 farmers it takes 5 minutes just to pay back the gold investment. And afterwards you get a slow trickle of 1 g/second…

The tech is kinde bad currently, it’s a very very lategame tech.

Funny, I was thinking to myself, that’s quite good, when reading your post with the numbers, and shockingly saw your next sentence you say it’s quite bad.

Same numbers compete opposite deduction.

Its amazing compared to feitorias. More gold would break the game honestly since 5 relic lategame are amazing in lategame, and burgundian already get 2-3

I think Feitoria pays off in somehing between 3-4 minutes actually. Included the housing space.
Feitoria ofc has the downside of occupying housing space.

But you are right 5 minute isn’t that long. Ii is actually shortet than the amortisation span of TCs. But also with the tweak, that TCs give so much more value in the long run in comparison.

Don’t know, I think because you need so many farmers to make it worth it, it’s still a very, very lategame upgrade as you will usually prefer to make military in the beginning of imp, it’s why you get up.
Also you maybe want to prefer flemish revolution, as it can give so much more value (also in terms of gold efficiency).
I think doing this upgrade earlier as when you see that gold becomse scarce is a waste, especially with burgundians and their whole design around their powerspikes.

You may have a point but I’ve always been a fan of longevity and I like this tech but maybe make the cost 600f 25g. however your math is off. If you have 40 farms you will have 1000 gold in 25 minutes but in post imp I think you will likely have more than 40 farms, also free gold generation is crucial in post-imp

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The question with feitorias is not how well they pay for themselves, but the opportunity cost of making a feitoria instead of using its 20 pop space in villagers.


That’s actually a pretty good suggestion

It’s terribile instead. Mediocre arbs, bad cavalry, bad monks, bad defences, no land gunpowder, just regular infantry. Basically in team games they would be relegated to halb+siege without any bonus for it.

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Then give them Thumb Ring in compensation so their arbalests are useful late game.

I thought we are talking trash war late. Arbs won’t help. Gold trickle will