IMO the current burgundian team bonus is up there among the most useless. The amount and type of resources given are both very low in terms of effectiveness, at least until the EXTREME late game(like, when all the wood is gone…)
So changing it wouldn’t be a particularly big problem. So I’d like to propose an alternative! An offensive team bonus!
Team Bonus: Enemy Age Up Cost +33%.
So the age up to feudal age would cost 666 food instead of 500. The age up to castle age would cost 1064 food and 266 gold. And to imperial would cost 1330f, 1064g.
This helps Burgundians use their early eco tech bonus by delaying enemy age ups.
This would be completely broken, especially in team games. I agree that they can’t make much use of their early eco bonus until castle, except maybe for wood upgrades. However, if you can get the wood upgrades early in dark and feudal age, it’s a big boost. Consider this team bonus instead:
Team Bonus: The scout line trains twice as fast.
This allows them the opportunity to perform a more aggressive scout rush and force their opponent to stay in feudal with them longer, perhaps allowing them the time to take advantage of their superior eco techs. This would be reasonably balanced by the lack of bloodlines, keeping with the “early power spike” theme of the Burgundians.
Actually, this may be broken with some other bonuses, such as the Magyars, Franks, or Huns. Alternatively:
Team Bonus: Stable may be built in Dark age (no units available until Feudal)
This would allow earlier scout rush potential (if timing up at same time, you’d have 3 scouts with starter before the opponent had any) but it would balance by weakening the scaling. It also keeps with the theme of early access to the cavalry line.
This may seem dumb but dark age scouts lose to villagers pretty easy. By the time you would have enough scouts to do dark age damage they should be moving up to feudal. While you would be stuck in a late dark age or trying for a feudal with fewer vills. I dont think access to the early scouts would be that big of a deal.
Awful. Would break the game totally. Would be the most OP bonus ever. Would allow one team to outboom much more easy. And fast castle much easier since they won’t be under pressure.
Relic food and gold is a nice bonus. Leave it at that.
If relics are so bad somehow. Just make the relics generate food faster. Simple fix.
No more broken than the Aztec Relic or the Spanish trade bonuses are in the end game. The only difference would be what part of the game it was relevant in.
Burgundians are currently in underperforming civ; I see no problem with giving them a powerful team bonus.
Your bonus totally breaks the game. A while back, you made a thread about nerfing bombard cannons. Hard to take you seriously on anything.
They have very powerful late game units. Cheap paladins upgrade. Stronger gunpowder units. Near full infantry tech, only missing supplies really. Flemish Militia is like a cross between a champion and a pikeman.
The current TB is fine. For most civs (except Lith) getting relics isn’t a priority because it’s not always worth it to invest in a monastery in prevision of the late game. For Burgundian the food income makes such an investment less harsh by giving you more food to develop your eco.
So the idea presented in the OP is just DUMB. Especially with this value, just going to feudal would force the enemy to waste the food for 3 vills or 2 scouts. And giving the enemy maluses just for playing against a particular civ is not a good idea. Like I know the new civs are gimmicky and all but there has to be limits.
This isn’t a much better idea. It’s steppe husbandry for free and the whole team ffs.
Khmer teammate = autowin
Of course it would, since you would be able to mass up scouts before the enemy has any chance to wall or make spears.
There is counter play to both: take relics or destroy monasteries for the first, kill their trade for the second. For your idea the counterplay is just: grind your teeth and hope next game you don’t have to face this again.
The solution shouldn’t be to make them the civ people pick when they want to be cancer/
Oh rest assured this bonus would destroy both 1v1 and TG on any map.
He has the same profile pic but it’s not the same person xD
A way to fix Burgundian would be to make this unit available without nuking the civ’s whole eco btw.
Their early imp is strong with quick and cheap paladins, but they fall off pretty quickly in post-imp since their cavalry line is lacking bloodlines. At that point, their strongest units are UU and gunpowder which are pretty easily countered. Massed pike/halbs in your eco should protect you and then you’ll win the late game.
I’m actually not sure what you mean here. The Khmer Feudal time isn’t the best in the game (although their castle time likely is). Mongols and Franks arguably should have faster Feudal times. I think this bonus would change gameplay, but not be an autowin for either though.
Khmer don’t need to build a barracks to unlock a stable, so they would be able to have two stables ready before hitting feudal. I can let you imagine the result.
Oh good point. I’m not sure this would be broken or not and they’d have to evaluate, but if it does end up being a concern for balancing, the bonus could be restricted as for Cumans:
Team Bonus: One stable may be built in Dark age (no units available until Feudal)
That would be better but still pretty dumb since you would potentially have your two pockets have a massive headstart in massing scouts. I don’t think any team bonus rn is that strong, especially so early on in the game.
the strongest team bonus so far is the spanish team bonus and yet this bonus only apply later in the game and yet again it’s so balanced compared to the broken idea of enemy age up cost or dark age stables, after all team bonus were never meant to be as strong as the civ bonuses
I think you are misremembering. I was the one countering that suggestion.
I don’t see any particular reason why it breaks the game any more than any other resource-based bonus. Other bonuses boost your own resource generation, this simply does the opposite, but has the same net effect. For example, the Celts could have - 15% enemy wood collection, and it would have functionally the same effect as boosting their own wood collection.
