Byzantines are supposed to be an open tech tree civ therefore I believe that they should have access to bloodlines and blast furnace to make their cavalry and infantry a more viable option. Since Byzantines have no unit that is particularly strong, they deserve to have an overpowered unit like the cataphract which would benefit from both upgrades.
Reduce the 25% cheaper skirmisher halbs and camle bonus to 20 percent.
remove 10 (20) hp from the cataphract and make the elite upgrade cost 200f (400f)less
Reduce the attack bonus from the cataphract against infantry to 3 and to 6 for the elite version
Byzantines are a counter-unit civ, not an open tech civ. They have cheap counter-units (Elite Skirmishers, Halberdiers and Heavy Camels). With Bloodlines and Blast Furnace, they would have the best Camels by far, and Cataphracts would simply be the strongest unit in the game.
The entire Byz civ would have to be nerfed dearly, to give them these two techs.
They already have the most cost-efficient counter units in the game.
They have FU Arbalests, and also have Paladins. Both those units are super strong.
Byzantines are intended to be an open-tech tree civ, but that actually means they have most units available rather than techs. Currently Byzantines are pretty good in lot’s of situations and overall a pretty decent civ, and kinda underrated imo. I highly disagree with giving them either blast furnace or bloodlines, would make their cataphracts op in games where booming is meta for example in black forest. Their elite upgrade could use a cost reduction though, about a 400 food less price would be really good.
Byzantines are fine the way they are. Adding BF + BL would mean they will have FU Infantry, cavalry, archers and HC. Thats the pure definition of broken. Not to mention FU Cata would destroy every single civ.
If you ask any pro, they will tell you that Byzantines need no buffs at all, because they are very versatile civ that plays well in any kind of map. The only thing that could be done about them would be reduce the cost of the elite upgrade and logistica. But no more than 200-300 resources.
Byz are very versitile but they are medicore in everything. This is their characteristic, what force people to search for solutions, to know Civ and oponent Civ, not just go for one gameplay. Byz are design for fluid tech-swiches.
Only buff they realy need, is lowering cost of Cata Elite Upgrade. 400F. Cata is most expensive to upgrade unit in the game (with upgrades only for this unit).
Other things, what can be buffed for Byz, but not nesesrly, is their Siege and Navy. Their Siege is below avarage, two things are strong only - Siege Ram and BBC. Probably the simplest way to do this will be giving them Siege Engeneers, other way can be give additional effect to their UT Greek Fire (my proposition was to give Defensive Structures and Siege bonus vs Siege, but this can be limited only to trebs. This will be: Castles, towers and Trebuchets deal more damage to Siege - 13% of base damage)
On the other hand, Byz Navy isnt bad in any meanigs. They are one of two civs with all ships FU, second is Spanish. They also have the best Fires in the game. But this si still not enough to take them to the top water civs, and they canot compet with Vikings or Italians, Malay or Japs. Maybe free War Galey upgrade will help Byz become one of the best water Civs.
I also have idea of giving them as Civ-Bonus - cheaper unit upgrades. ALL upgrades. This will be in-line with their counter-civ identity and will help them both on land and on water.
Thats still a huge buff to Byzantines that is not necessary
You’re literally giving normal cats +10 hp and +2 attack.
Elite cats -400 food and +2 attack.
Camels, knights, and scouts +20 hp and +2 attack
Cav archers +20 hp.
And what do they lose for this? 5% of their halb and skirm bonus. For a balanced civ as is
Remove camels discount, change to skirmishers and halbs 25% cheaper in feudal and 30%cheaper in castle age, give them blondline and reduce cataphract cost or upgrade .
Cataphract could be more useful with blondline, and remove camels discount make them don’t have op camel in castle age, instead of more discount of pikeman and skirmishers in castle age could do same job.
there camels aren’t that op as is, and the 25% discount helps their imp age camels.
all these changes do is make byzantines stronger then they already are. the only change Byzantines need is a small reduction in price on Elite Cataphract upgrade.
They have crazy expensive upgrade about cavalier line ,like they have paladin upgrade and Elie cataphract and logistics. But after all, their calvlier lack of blondlines and last attack upgrade just make them bad compare with their prices.
So give them blondlines, but remove camels discount. Actually even without blondlines, their camels are best in castle age according to the video spirit of law “who have best camels” .
And as the game goes on ,trash units of discount 25% will lose disadvantages and for Their lose discount of camels, give pike and skirmishers more discount in castle will be the change, and also this two units are more defence, won’t buff them too much.
So the only tech I think should give Byzantine is blondlines, and reduce cataphract cost. I don’t think this buff will be so op.
Different about Chinese and Byzantine is Chinese have better economic before imp , so every units will be good for them . with no economic bonus ,byz can’t mass cavalier like Chinese before imp, but their late game opinion will be more strong. Only FU arbalester just not really enough for late imp.
Btw, cataphract really suck.
and despite all that, they are still a very solid, well balanced civilization. at most i’d give them a 400 food discount on their unique unit elite upgrade.
this is a far bigger buff then you think it is.
you’re literally giving a well balanced civ 20 more HP on knights, scouts, cav archers, camels, and cataphracts.
and yet you’ve already buffed their defenses elsewhere in the castle age by giving them fully upgraded knights, cav archers, and camels with more health.
I have to heavily disagree. at most the only change byzantines need right now is a small reduction in food cost on cataphract uprade. down to 1200 from 1600.
but they have better defensive units to counter that. and they save on those defensive units.
no, they don’t. they have no real direct counter and do trample damage.
Why need thats buff is because I cancel their camels discount
Cataphract suck in the game, weak against range and other cavalier, and trade bad against camels and halbs campare their cost . They’re only good against special infantry like eagles. And after all they have second highest expensive upgrade in the game
they don’t need the buff to the pikes and skirms because you’ve literally giving them bonuses to 3 units they can use defensively. cav archers, knights, and camels.
I don’t see give them blondlines are so op because, again,they don’t have economic bonus before imp, that’s just help their late game calvlier, and again, they have paladin expensive upgrade in the late game cavalier but after all, they are suck .
And stop talking about how good about discount 25% discount of their trash, how often u see player win the game only use trash before imp.
Wow ,u will use Cav archers for defence? In this case Saracen is the most strong defence civ in this game, they also have camels and better crowsbow and better market economic