i agree with what you’re saying, I’m just saying, people underestimate the durability of the Cataphract with its anti bonus damage
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yes which is why giving Byzantines Bloodlines and Blast Furnace is a huge buff compared to what they lose.
in the case i was referencing he wants them to lose 5% of their cheaper halb and spear bonus, which isn’t much of a change because they are cheap to begin with.
in return they get +20 HP and +2 attack (In Imp) on all knight and scout units.
they get +10 HP on their normal cats. and +2 attack in Imp
there elite cataphract upgrade is 400 food cheaper, and gains +2 attack.
Heavy/Camels gain +2 attack and +20 HP
and they also get to use their previously unused Cav Archers who will also have +20 HP.
all for a civ that is balanced as is.
its a massive overbuff
Not disagreeing. Just spoke my mind, because no one seemed to be mentioning it.
I personally just want Logistica to be cheaper. Done in one.
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ehh, i’m more for making Elite Cat Cheaper and giving them +1 PA. they save too much food all over the board to be making such a great unit and tech too much cheaper. but i do agree that they need a lower cost investment into the unit overall. not much though, as the Cataphract is just too dang good.
That’s based on 23 games. Not enough.
actually when he linked it was with last months/patches data, so more like a couple hundred games. the data has since updated to reflect the most recent patch until you go into the finer details.
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Not sure if could be good but what if Logistica affects all cavalry??
Paladins that have trample and bonus damage against pikes…
I mean without the infantry damage
it’s still frightening to think about. Cavalry fights just got a whole lot scarier.
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mmmm could be but Byzantine cavalry is weaker wothout blast furnace and bloodlines.
anywhay the tech is a bit too expensive and for affecting only one unit, in contrast Druzhina affects all infantry but is more expensive and is fine due of that.
Druzhina also doesn’t give any bonus damage, and frankly, outside of the Spear line, how often do you see Infantry used?
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Blast Furnace give Cav +2.
Logistica give +5 vs all units around, every time unit is attacking, except direct target.
It is strong enough to make Catas win in massive battle (40v40) against Frank Paladins. What is fine, because Cata is much harder to mass. But Paladin is from stable. And Byz Pala has better stats than ECata. With trample, will become the best Paladin in the game. As well as Byz HCamel and Byz Hussar.
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This can work imo. Logistica is very powerful, so fine if it is expensive.
Cataphracts are very under used. Even if you make the elite cost cheaper and make them a bit better vs archers, the investment for them is huge, you need logistica and several castles. And still they would be worse than Paladins in fighting knight line (unless huge numbers are involved) and in fighting archers.
So basically, even with these small buff going catas would be very risky and uncommon, since you would be in trouble with the two most common units in the game.
Letis is a bit different since it is weaker (than paladins) against one of the two common units (archers) but stronger against the second one (knights)
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Are Byzantines considered to be strong? Stronger than other meta civs like Mayans or Goths? If so they might need a nurf, but weakening the expensive cataphract is a bad option imho. Maybe if they get some type of new elephant for balancing, they could be weaker and cheaper.
We are saying that, since Byzantines are not a top pick and their UU is rarely used, a small buff would be appreciated. The idea is making the cataphract more accessible (reduction of the cost of the elite upgrade) and/or better vs archers.
My feeling is that none thinks that Byzantines need a nerf.
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They were, last month. Byzantines broke into top 5 a lot of times.
People really underestimate the power of Building HP and Mass cheap Trash.
Couple that with Paladin and BBC, and Byz have all the tools they need.
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Where you see Byzantine broke into 5 ?
On the open map , mayan ,Mongol, magyars, tatars, slav , Frank over pick Byzantine.
Close map, Briton, celts, Teuton, korea, Ethiopian can do better than Byzantine.
Water map will always Japanese, malay, Italian.
Now just wanna little bit buff Byzantine by buff their unique units, which not even strong compare with other unique cavalier.
Trash units most of time will use them in post imp,in that moment , resources will be no problems, discount 25%but pretty weak for Byzantine , they don’t have sige engineer, and last attack upgrade for every melee fight units and blondlines for hussar.
Yes, they have all tools, but none of them are good.
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I posted the aoe.stats page of last moth, and tehy were on the top 5, in 1650+ ELO.
They still are this month too, though with much fewer games.
