Celtic Pantheon Ideas

Age of Mythology: Retold Discussion
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The size of the Celtic World

The Celts settled in a very wide area from Spain in the West, Turkey in the East and Scotland in the North but they originated in Central Europe.


What should be valued more, the areas inhabited by Celts in modern times, the areas inhabited by Celts at the time of the ancient Greeks and Romans or one of the other areas?
The Gauls were the ones the Greeks and Romans interacted with the most but they also were completely assimilated by the Romans in ancient times already.

Then another challenge is the very early Christianisation of the Celtic, especially in Ireland.
A lot of famous myths have Christian influences like the Arthurian legends or Beowulf.

Common features

  • Villagers cost Wood instead of Food
  • Trees last twice as long
  • Can train Druids and Bards
  • Can build Shrines that create Favour from Natural Resources

Favour

Shrines can be build anywhere on the map, but preferably next to forests.
Shrines generate favour based on the number of trees, berry bushes and gold mines in their radius. The favour generation rate depends on the amount of resources in those trees, berry bushes and gold mines.
Those resources can not be harvested, not even by enemies, unless the Shrine is destroyed. Shrines also prevent buildings from being build in their radius.
The number of Shrines is limited to 1 per Age.
You can pay gold to grow Holy Trees.

Holy Trees are a lot larger then normal trees and have symbols caved into them. They heal nearby civilian and religious units (Druids and Bards) as well as generate more Favour then normal Trees.
Their number is limited and then can be attacked by enemies.

Major Gods

There is already an old thread about gods and myth units
Celtic Mythology for Age of Mythology II

I’m going to stick with the Gaul names but all those gods where also worshipped by Welsh and Iris people in some capacity.

Taranis

Sky and Thunder god. His symbol is the Wheel.

Unique unit: Gaul Cavalry
Cavalry with a charged attack that does AoE damage.

Bonuses:

  • Cavalry generate resources while attacking buildings
  • Cavalry have increased armour
  • Wheel of Time ability allows buildings to train military units instantly but costing Favour ontop of their normal cost (1 Favour per population)
  • Hill Forts don’t cost Favour

Cernunnos

God of Life and Nature.

Unique unit: Woad Raider
Fast Infantry with small bonus vs. Archers and Siege units.

Bonuses:

  • Shrines slowly generate Deer
  • Infantry move faster
  • Druids can plant Holy Trees anywhere
  • Holy Trees heal nearby buildings

Matronae (Morrigan)

The 3 goddesses of the Underworld

Unique unit: Long Bowman
Slow moving Archer with very long range.

Bonuses:

  • Train villagers in groups of 3 (Cost 135 Wood, 42 seconds train time)
  • Ranged units deal Poison damage
  • Hero units grant 1 Favour on death

Units

Barracks

  • II Spearman (Anti Cavalry Infantry)
  • II Horseman (Anti Archer Cavalry)
  • III Swordsman (Allround Infantry)

Archery Range

  • II Fianna (Archer Hero that can hunt animals)
  • II Hunting Crossbowman (Fast but low DPS Anti Infantry Archer)
  • III Javelin Thrower (Anti Archer Archer)

Hill Fort

  • III War Chariot (Slow but tanky Cavalry with trample damage)
  • III Unique Unit (Depends on Major God)
  • III Ram (Bigger and slower then the Norse unit)
  • IV Stone Thrower (Guy that throws bit stones)

Temple

  • I Druid
  • II Bard

Druid

  • Curses enemy units, including Myth units
  • Cursed units receive more damage
  • Heal allied units
  • Considered Heroes and there for take less damage from Myth units
  • Can pick up Relics

Bards

  • Can perform different Poems
  • Poems buff nearby units in different ways
  • Some Poems can also buff Villagers and Druids

Thoughts

I tried to find a compromise between the Celts of Gaul and the British Isles.
I concentrated on the “human” part of the civilisation so I didn’t add Myth units and Minor gods yet.

The names of God and units are a little more complicated to choose because of the differences in languages. Also some things are only known by their Latin names.

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Personally, I think the celts should be the mythology added next, if not them then Mesopotamians.
Having said that, I think if they do the Celts should draw the most from Brythonic/Gael Celts - their mythology, faith and culture survived far longer than the mainland European celts (Gallic, Celt-Iberian mainly) who’s culture and way of life didn’t survive the romans.
Brythonic/Gael celts is one of the more substantially studied and there is generally much more known about it (owing to its longevity and survival). I would suggest then that the period covered be of Brythonic/ Gael Celts of antiquity-dark ages.
But that’s just my thoughts. While the celts are “one people” in the loosest sense of the term, they never considered it and their culture did deviate vastly among the various Celtic groupings, which includes mythology and religion. And we simply don’t know enough about the Gallic faith, as the Romans barely recorded it, to add it in, whereas our knowledge of Brythonic/Gaelic is much greater. Thoughts?

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The current civs (Greeks, Norse and Egyptians) each already cover a large time frame and regional differences.
For example the Egyptians have early Bronze Age as well of Ptolemaic elements. That is a time difference of almost 2000 years. The Greeks also have Macedonian unit names too.

So having 1-2 units being inspired by Gauls won’t be an issue at all.

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Apologies, I should’ve been clearer.
I agree the human units could have mixtures and blends of Gallic. Represent the whole Celt people. I was more specifically talking about the Gods and the Myth units should be focused on the Brythonic/Gaelic as it’s more well studied, researched and prevalent.
In light of that, what would you think of the primary deities being Dagda, Morrigan and Balor?

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The problem with Irish mythology is that it turned some gods into heroes or other none god beings. Not sure if that’s because of the early Christianization of Ireland.
Which kinda doesn’t really work for AoM.
Not sure what is the best way to solve that.

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So did Greek Mythology to an extent. It turned heroes into Gods. Heracles for example was a widely worshipped cult and deity in the classical era and well into the Roman. The devs chose to represent him as a hero rather than a god. So it might be a case whereby they carefully pick the right gods and then stick with them as gods.
The issue of “mixing” the different Celtic religions is that, aside from the names, very little is known of any of them aside from the Gaelic/Brythonic. It would lead to too much anachronisms - even for AOM - to justify mixing and matching arbitrarily. The human soldiers can be mixed as obviously that’s always had some liberties, but for the main part of an AOM civ (the religion), their best option is to choose one pantheon and stick to it. In this case, their best bet is the Gaelic/Brythonic

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Not sure what the best names would be and honestly it also depends on localisation.

Like for example in the French localisation it should probably the Gaul names of the gods so French players can identify with the civ more.
Some symbols like the Gaul Rooster should appear somewhere. Its technically not really based on Celtic mythology but an important symbol for the French people.

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Small suggestion, if I may: as the Norse already have Hill Forts as their castle building, I’d give the Celts Ringforts instead, which are more unique and are closely associated with historic Celtic settlements in the British Isles.

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Wow, your idea for favour gathering is almost exactly like one I had been thinking of, the idea of turning trees into a sacred grove or gold mines into a henge of sorts.

I’d personally like to see things from many different groups, at least on the human military side: gaul cavalry, pict woad raiders, chariots. Admittedly I am less familiar with eastern and southern celtic groups.

For myth units an obvious choice would be the Gaelic banshee.

This may not fit in the time frame, But I think a large colossus like Wicker-man unit would be cool to see. It could consume human soldiers for kindling and get a buff from that.

Definitely a faction that has a lot of promise.

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Wow the 3 major god picks are axactly my personal thoughts on this topic except i had Teutates instead of Matronae in mind. I love the idea of Teutates as a ‘‘chieftain’’ god. But i guess Matronae would be a good pick because of the ‘‘one evil/underworld major god’’ concept. On the other hand a minor god role wouldn’t do Teutates justice i think. But IF we get a fourth major god for each civ through the ‘‘god packs’’ i think the problem would be solved. Then we can get Cernunnos, Taranis, Matronae AND Teutates as major gods.

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Ok me personally I think it would be cool if I could give it a go could you guys help me i got the major human units and a favor mechanic could you give like gods and buildings.

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Sounds good.
I was looking for a good name but didn’t find anything that wasn’t like Latin or something (Oppidum).

Barracks and Archery Range could of course have a unique name too but I kept it simple for now.

My original idea was to just use trees but that was kinda to limited and too stereotypical so I added all immobile sources of natural resources.
I decided to make trees more valuable though. But maybe that isn’t even needed since there are simply way more trees then gold mines or berries anyway.

A tree has 150 wood compared to a 6000 Gold mine so you need 40 trees for the same value.
Should not be hard to get 40 trees if the radius is big enough.

Holy trees can be planted to fill out the empty area in the radius that will likely appear when placing the building next to a tree line.

Same. I based the civ mostly around Irish and British Celts with some Gaul aspect mixed in.

I liked a thread in my post that has a list of possible Myth units.

I was originally planing on adding Teutates since it’s probably the most commonly known god but Morrigan/Matronae are uniquely interesting. Being 3 female gods at once gives some cool unique design opportunities.

Cernunnos is just pretty cool and fits nicely into the theme.

Taranis has a wheel. Chariots are cool. That’s pretty much my whole point.

You could have replied here instead of making your own thread. You only suggested a few human units anyway.

You suggested some things that I thought about but mostly discarded. I originally thought about making the Arthurian Legend part of the civ but the legend has a lot of Christian elements that don’t really fit into AoM. Also a lot about Chivalry in it’s themes.
A civilisation like that would feel even more modern then the Norse, something most people really dislike.

I do like the idea of adding hunting Crossbows to the civilisation.

My proposal currently has 3 different bow archer units, replacing one of them with a Crossbow would add more diversity.

So updating my suggestion to replace the Forest Bowman with a a Hunting Crossbowman.

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Thanks for the “shout out” lol.

I’ve been reflecting on the favor mechanic and its potential for Celtic mythology / civ. When people think of Celtic mythology, nature and trees are often among the first things that come to mind. At least to me anyway.

How about this idea: Celtic players could gain favor by constructing their temples near trees. The more trees surrounding a temple, the more favor they receive. This could also apply to other buildings if need be.

Additionally, the Celts could have a unique mechanic ONLY to their civilization where villagers can plant trees at the cost of food.

This would not only allow for a continuous, “infinite” production of favor but also create a visually appealing town or city that is rich in nature and trees.

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I decided to give the favour generation to a separate building so you don’t have a build limit for Temples and can just build them where you need to train myth units, Druids or Bards.

I gave them the ability to construct holy trees instead of regular trees because I thought regular trees might overlap with Gaia too much.
Also made those Holy Trees attackable so you can’t use them for walling.

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Wow, this is actually very similar to the AoM Celts concept I came up with (I swear I haven’t seen this thread before). I likewise tried to balance Gaulish/Irish/Welsh elements to make it as close to representing a common Celtic culture as possible. If you’re interested, you can find it here.

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I guess we both did similar research on Celtic culture and mythology.

I like your dual use building idea, but that might cause some balance, issues, not sure.
Balance of such ideas is always hard to tell in a game with so many extremes like AoM.

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I really think a Celtic faction should be specifically Irish. The Celts weren’t a single culture with a single mythology. They were a linguistic group. Irish mythology is the only one we have detailed info about because they were the last to Christianize. We know the names of Gaulish gods but none of their stories. We know the Christianized versions of Welsh myths but can only speculate about their gods.

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Balance of such ideas is always hard to tell in a game with so many extremes like AoM.

As you say, and in any case it’s impossible to say for sure to what extent something can be balanced until it’s actually implemented and tested in game. Honestly of all the elements, that’s one I’m less worried about, since we’ve already had similar in previous games, e.g. the Japanese in AoE4, Native Americans, Russians in AoE3.

Heck, even the AoE2 Slavs can use production buildings for population - I was originally thinking of adding something similar (something like the AoE3 Blockhouse called a Dun), but I felt it wouldn’t be good to have pop buildings which are even higher-priority targets for enemies.

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You and I think very similarly lol. I do like the idea of Aztecs, but Celts and Mesopotamians are very high on my wishlist (along with Slavs and Aztecs)

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The Irish being the last?
They got Christianize extremely early, to the point that most of their mythology was rewritten in a way to make it compatible with Christianity.
Most of their gods where changed into “heroes” and stuff like that.

The thing is that drop of buildings cost 50 Wood and Military buildings cost 100+ Wood.
Drop of buildings are even free for the Egyptians.
So would their drop of buildings be very expensive or their Military buildings very cheap?

Not a big issue but certainly something to think about.

The other examples you give combine other functions.
A 250 Wood tower + 200 Wood Barrack, or just adding a little population to buildings.
Japanese in AoE4 are combining technology and drop of buildings.