Change the Elephant Archer

Ok, So I think Elephant Archers should be classified as Cavalry and Building or Building and Archers Getting More Range or Line of Sight form Town watch and not getting bonus damage from Skirmishers and More from siege .Also give them the ability to shoot while walking .

Reasons For These changes:

  1. They are Tanky and Can Actually Hold on for some time.
  2. Make Historical Sense . Since Elephants Were used as Towers in the Midst of war from where they could see far and Hit accurately .
  3. While Cav Archer move they cant most of the time Use there Hands but on an Elephant Yeah they can since Archers are not usually the ones who move it .
  4. Who would Win the battle against an Elephant A spear thrown from a far or a Very nice Ram that can really break its bones.
  5. There Line of Sight is Low like An Longbow has it higher , Hes on Ground While the Archer is on an Elephant .
  6. They are terrible at raiding .
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I don’t think it’s doable. So far some units have been attacking while moving because of extreme bugs (the kind that also gave them noclip) so definitely something you don’t want to meddle in.

Their range is indeed on the short side. However, they already are among the very few archers that get 100% accuracy without Thumb ring (which is less historically fitting than the short range since it must have been quite hard to aim while being on a shaky living platform)

Well, with this logic Rams should be able to kill everything.

No need for Town Watch. Just chnage the unit’s base LoS and it’s done.

They are a slow unit. Of course they are not made for this.
The building armor class would make them too close to the Ballista Elephant who is a siege/cav hybrid.

1: so does other units.
2: doesn’t make “logical” sense. Elephants are elephants, buildings are buildings.
3: not being able to shoot while walking is more of a game limitation than a realism thing. And btw Cavalry archers could fire while moving in real life too, as you pointed out, so applying it only to elephants would be weird.
4: how would you attack a moving target with a ram in real life? The idea itself makes little sense.
5: maybe he should just get a buff in line of sight isntead?
6: well, its an elephant, thats to be expected.

I think the unit needs to fill an unique role to be useful. But the idea of a slow moving tanky unit that fires arrows doesn’t work mainly because of its very strong counters. Halberds specifically counter it too well. Also monks. But i dont think elephant archers should receive less damage bonus than other elephant units, it wouldn’t make much sense. What about giving it some bonus of some sort? Maybe an anti-siege bonus, like what magudais had on aoc? Or at least an anti-onager bonus? Or an anti-monk bonus? Or maybe they could be the first ranged unit to have bonus against unique units? Just throwing ideas, dunno if these would be very balanced. I agree something could be done, but i dont think we need new game mechanics or weird ideas like giving it the building class to make the unit work.

I think it can be changed the looks to have 2 or 3 archers on the elephant’s back, and make it can target 2 or 3 units and fire 2 or 3 arrows in same time. That will be powerful and also make the sense.

Trouble is that’s too much like the Kipchek. Give it siege bonuses and it’s too much like the Mangudai. Give it anti-infantry and it’s overlapping with Hand Cannons, give it anti-cav and it’s too much like Camels/Mamelukes.

I was thinking about going in a more Command and Control direction. What if you put a monk on its back and let it automatically heal nearby units? You would always want a few with any army.

So an Elephant Missionary ?

Yeah , But same It would Like having Walking Towers that’s the point , not too much HP not too much Range just a walking Tower

That’S actually a Nice Idea an Elephant Kipchek. like it but stronger

People barely use monks to heal, why would they use a super expensive one that can’t convert?

I’m having trouble imagining a heavy frame mounted battering ram being pushed up to a living creature and swung to break its bones without the elephant side stepping, reaching inside with its trunk and starting to throw soldiers around. You know, if we’re using realism as a reference point here. Thrown spears at the very least hurt it, they can cause panic or confusion and have even been known on occasion to kill an elephant in one hit. (There’s a documented case of this happening in Roman games, it hit just underneath the eye.)

I do not suggest picking a fight with an elephant, but historically both javelins or pikes would have probably been some of your best bets against them, so the current configuration kind of makes sense.

That said, it is one of those units you rarely see, so a rebalance might be called for. But I wouldn’t equate an elephant to a building and make it weak to rams based on a claim of realism. If anything I’d give elephants a bonus against buildings. They seem to have a lot more in common with rams than they do with a castle gate.

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Ever played the campaigns?

Then I have either Herbal medicine or monks that only cost 100 ressources

Because it also works as an arrow sponge and a mediocre archer, so you’re not excessively hurting yourself by having it. The idea being it would shoot AND heal at the same time.

In the long term it would become a solid and less risky economic investment.

I don’t think a unit can heal and fight at the same time (just like a monk can’t both attack and heal) You would have to tweak its stance (I guess) to make it prioritizing attack or healing. With this micro I would be better off just pulling my monk back when danger arrives.

The way I’d do it would be to have a second invisible ‘unit’ atop the first. You couldn’t select it or control it, but it would automatically heal nearby units kinda like a healing tower.

You’d show this visually by adding a monk sprite behind the archer atop the elephant. There’s more than enough room there, I think.

If elephant archers can attack and auto-heal in same time, they will be like berserk archers with high HP. It may be overpower.
Think about how to adjust the way of attack or just make a new elephant-ride monk unit.

don’t forget Maghrabi Camels
camel archers and camel riders with auto heal

Maghrabi Camels only 1 HP per 4 secs, quite slow. If the healer of the elephant archer can heal like a monk, it would be stronger than Berber camel. Then, since elephants have more HP than camels, that means it would be tougher and tougher.

Just introducing an elephant-ride monk is a good idea for me. It would be like missionary with elephants, higher HP, slower moving, shorter range. Most special is it could heal/convert and hold a relic in same time since elephants have more space.

I never said area healing elephant archer is a good idea

Don’t mind. I knew you were not said that.