China OP

[Musketeer2202]

China early game is OP on most maps by design

[M1kazuki6861]

Germany is OP on all land Maps by design

You see if you want to discuss something you have to do more than just throw a sentence in the room and say it’s op, broken or whatever. So please specify what is for you op about china so that maybe we can talk about it.

[anon69503411]

Actually china is underpowered. It is one of the worst civs in 1v1 now. And bottom in team game. Chinese units are not cost effective anymore, and are hard to produce because of batch training. Wonders are nerfed. Units are nerfed. I think it is overnerfed in previous patches

[M1kazuki6861]

It’s funny how 1vs1 was always the forte of china but now a lot of civs are just way better at it or straight out hard counter china, which brings us to the point that china may be even better now in team games then in 1vs1.

What I want to say is that although I agree with you, I already did make a post about a little china rework + I spoke about what they would at least need to nerf and buff to make them more viable again.
I don’t want to be that guy, but please consider maybe taking a look at it or even leaving a comment about it if you don’t like some specific changes. I’m always open to helpful suggestions.

China Rework

The following article will be about a optimal China rework, changing most of their military upgrade cards and their war academy. I will try to summarize the main Ideas, if you however are interested in the more detailed and full changes please just look at the bottom of this post. Most of these Ideas come from UpmostRook9474, who kindly allowed me to repost his Ideas. The plan is to make the Chinese gunpowder units more viable in the late game by giving more options to buff them which would ma…

[coffeeco01]

That doesn’t seem underpowered, midling maybe but not underpowered

[M1kazuki6861]

Well yeah as I said chinas forte is 1vs1, and yes you may be right that these stats show us that china is certainly good with a 50% wr. I just want to point out that Germany, Hausa, USA and all the other top tier civs are for a reason top tier and china not.

Also it may have slipped your mind as you maybe don’t care that much about this civ, but China got way more nerfed than “buffed”. Especially their late game units are way worse now which is one of the reason you won’t see their wr drop that much because 1vs1 games simply don’t go that long. So yes 1vs1 they are more or less alright, especially in lower elos where you tend to micro less.

Now I shall again advertise my post about a china rework which in my opinion should help improve the disappointing aspects of china and curb the overpowering aspects.
Yes I copied a few words for my last sentence because I like them.

[anon69503411]

Don’t need to argue with this guy. He literally argue against anyone on any thread against any ideas…he just always bring opposite idea to anyone who post anything XD

[M1kazuki6861]

I get where he is coming from and I don’t want china to be op but their skirms really suck hard in the late game, before all the nerfs they were just bad in the late game but now they are like giga bad. It’s funny to me how nobody seems to talk about it.

[coffeeco01]

if we want to somewhat revert the changes the the arq we can just give back the attack boost for repelling volley and also give an extra 5% on territorial army combat

That will get the unit to about 30.9 atk which will show up as 30 but its fine for our purposes. its also a slight buff to changdaos and a little extra hp for arq

it will also boost ckn over 40 dmg so thats another lategame buff

to make comparisons, the US state militia cost 90 res and also caps out at 29.9 dmg.

for the trades-off of the arq around 31 dmg lategame is more then doable

[BjornViking20]

@anon69503411

Actually china is underpowered. It is one of the worst civs in 1v1 now. And bottom in team game. Chinese units are not cost effective anymore, and are hard to produce because of batch training. Wonders are nerfed. Units are nerfed. I think it is overnerfed in previous patches

This would be a great moment to emphasize more on elite units, like improving flamethrower range, giving White Pagoda the ability to boost Outlaws as well, easier massability of consulate units, access to imperial mercenaries, infinite mercenary shipments and improved range for Iron Troops with the terrible card Koxinga

[coffeeco01]

again trying to provide testable materials for these changes

Here is a mod that implement these changes

the changes are as follows
Before

After

Note due to the truncation the stats might seems lower then it actually is

changdao actual attack is 36.45 and arq atk is 30.9

Now the changdao does 82 dmg to cav compared to qiang pike 95 and less siege and the pike range thing

but in exchange you get a lot more base attack, 6 more HP and armour

[M1kazuki6861]

Hm honestly this will just revert china more to how it used to be instead of using this opportunity to truly change some disappointing aspects of china. Which is the reason why I still prefer the changes that @UpmostRook9474 came up.

PS sorry man for pinging you.