Chinese 9 minute 2 TC AND Fast Castle much balance

Followed up with nest of bees ofc

Can we get a patch?

You can also get an 11 minute HRE imperial, a 5 minute Rus castle and many other amazing times, don’t see why this would need any change in a patch, I’d reccomend learning some build orders!


5 minute Rus castle is a major problem that needs a nerf

11 minute HRE imperial is not a problem on normal maps because you’ll get ram pushed

This is a problem because it’s a 2nd TC AND a fast castle in 9 minutes - which is absurd.

I mean 11 min imp isnt really worse than 2TC fast castle, since the HRE imp building is 4 TCs and 1/4 cost vills.

Rus fast castle is 7 min at best with really greedy scout build. Realistically its more like 8-8.5 minutes in a real game


The Chinese 9 min 2 TC + fast Castle also gets bees out from the castle building, completely destroying any early aggression you might have.

With an early longbow push, you might have the first longbow around 5 min

That means you have 4 min to do some kind of serious, crippling damage before turtle chinese has an impenetrable wall and out come the palace guard / nest of bees

I think most factions can do that easily (2tc and fast castle within 10 mins (pic said timing is 9.54 lol)) if the opponent doesnt apply any pressure. I would blame myself, if I were you. Afterall 2nd tc, 3rd landmark and a NoB cost more than 3K.


Even with Abasid (and they are slower since they can not speed up ageups) you can click castle so you are there at 8:30ish, while you age up you could also collect enough ressources to build a 2nd TC. What you could not do is to get the ressources for the TC first and then go castleage, you would end up with 11min castleage or so.

Against chinese I basically always do a ram push. Simply because that is most effective.
But it depends a bit on the map, if you have to go thru their defensive building it slows down your push, if you are on a bit more open map, you can just ram their castle ageup building and continue from there. No one forces one to go for the TC first, stopping them from aging up can be enough already to make the push successful.

But if your opponent pulls off a perfect 10min castleage with 2nd TC I can see how that can be unstoppable since you got 2 tc and a defensive landmark shooting at you, tons of damage if those buildings are close together and if your ram push does not take down at least the 2nd tc you are in for deep sh… :smiley:

I watched the replay since you only censored ur ID but didnt even care to do so for the opponent. I would say

  1. Ur opponent get to castle at 9.45, while ur first archer came out at 4.37, so the gap is more than 5 mins not 4 mins in which u trying to mislead so bad.

  2. The first villager kill was at 9.22 which is like waaay delayed, anyone would be rich by that time.

  3. After seeing the opponent with NoB, instead of trying to advance urself to the next age and get springald, you just make three Barracks and trying to outspam MaA, no way your inferior 2nd-age MaA can fight them, as you literally did zero eco dmg.

  4. After getting a shot of NoB and retreat, you could’ve used camp fire to heal up while making ram, but nope, gonna charge my half HP longbow so NoB can kill some of the rest.

  5. You are the English, you can also get mangonel, which is currently better than NoB, from the third landmark as well.

  6. Going 2nd TC and King’s palace at 8 min gives you three 3TC and instantly at third age, why wont you complain abt that then?

you see it is not abt chinese being too fast, but you making mistakes and bad decisions.


At 18 CET is the EGC Winter Series Semi Finals.

Try to look into it and u will see amazing timings and how there enemys react and play with it.

I think the crazyst thing I saw was GL.Jordan vs 3D!BEE (when u wanna see chinese) and a 8:06 Rus castle was performed yesterday too ^^

This is tournement play and its amazing to see

I think that before commenting on whether something is balanced or not, the elo that the commenter has should first be said.

You should have a minimum rating and a minimum knowledge of the competitive metagame to be able to speak properly, apart from then give solid arguments why something should change or not.

I watched some of this guys replays and he does the exact same thing every game.

Is the 2TC fast castle viable with the Chinese with the Song dynasty? Or do you have to forgo a dynasty for speed?

Also, does the 2 TC FC work on maps like Arabia, where a rush is more effective?

The only relevant point you made anywhere in this reply was not being fast enough to push pressure

Everything else was completely irrelevant

As soon as the 2 TC and castle hit, the game was over. NoB was not counterable, nothing at that point mattered.

“set up camp to heal” lol
“retreat and age up” lol as English … against China?

English has no viable openings other than aggression. They literally cannot compete at all in any kind of macro game, so you have to be aggressive and go from there (I mean you can just completely outplay your opponent and win, but you are always going to be at a disadvantage)

As far as people’s ELO comments or pointing out mistakes

every player makes mistakes, I expect a balanced game regardless of my ELO

I should not have to be 3x the player of my opponent to have a chance to win due to imbalance

there are several braindead builds being developed right now that are exposing balance issues and they need to be exposed and addressed

It’s viable on closed maps, but if you try it on something like Arabia without scouting, you are liable to dying horrendously in Feudal age.

If U wanna play 1 TC and all-in push, arriving at enemy’s base at 9 min mark clearly indicates something is wrong in your build order like everyone is trying to point out. But instead of looking up what is wrong and could be improved, u just be here and cry …

The point of you making this thread is you claim that “ChInA tWO TC aND faST CAstlE at 9.45 mins is OP pLS NeRf” guess what every f**king nation can do it. The english even can go as much as three TC and fast castle at 8-ish min. Then should we nerf that as well?,

As I mentioned, English do have many options to play, you just refused to explore, or just want everyone to stay in Fuedal when nobody wanna fight your MaA and longbow.

Age up is at least better coz u were extremely late in pushing/kiting, especially as an English you have two nice landmark options to castle, dead push was meh as enemy economy was virtually intacted, see when you wasted resources on three rams while he alr had enough MaA to deal with. Not to mention that springald is really nice to deal with NoB now they buff their anti-siege capability.

At least blame urself, you spotted him mining stone at 4.45, saw 2nd TC being built at 5.25, meanwhile ur longbows left the base at 7 min, chilling somewhere and then arriving at enemy base at min 9.20, and expected a good outcome??? U didnt even try to make forward outpost as most Eng player do with a dead push.


How do you play English and 9 min 2 TC FC is allowed. You should be streaming longbows into his base at like 5 minutes or 530 at the latest. 2 TC play should get destroyed by somewhat competent English feudal aggression.

Maybe if he like walled off on black forest or hill and dale I could see it.

The chinese base were completely naked for 10 mins zero wall and zero military units(Not counting the scout). First military unit came out around 10.30

Too op man, he’s already making military at 1030, how do you even counter that /s


You don’t know what you’re talking about

1.) a 2nd TC at 5 mins sandwiched between the defensive landmark and primary TC…first longbow shows up at 5 min so GG, no counter

2.) you keep proving your stupidity by talking about MAA or springalds.

The game was over when castle hit. You can’t “catch up” to chinese econ. Easy safe greedy build that can’t be stopped due to tc/barb defense.

You seem to be really angry about english but you don’t know what you’re talking about

BeastyQT rated english as one of the worst factions in the game right now because of the limitations and the fact that the only opening is aggression.

The issue isn’t my 7 longbows at my base at 6.25333333~ minutes into the game

The issue is how china can braindead turtle 2 TC + FC using that exact layout and defensive landmark and you can’t stop it

2nd TC comes out at 5 min, after defensive landmark. you can’t get into the turtle layout

you don’t need military.

are you a salty chinese player?

@RadiatingBlade edit: Be respectful towards other forum users per the code of conduct.