I like Chinese and Magyars. I play the both quite often and even think that their balance is mostly ok.
The only thing that came in my mind was a taem bonus issue. I often read that Chinese extra vills, cheaper upgrades and longer lasting farms are a bit too much in the eco bonus section. On the other hand, I hear people complain that Magyars don´t have any eco bonus at all. Anyway, in my opionion, an eco bonus for magyrs would be completely op, if it applied in dark age. Combining a dark age eco bonus with cheaper and free forging scouts could lead to absurd rush potential.
But swapping Magyars and Chinese team bonus could come quite handy. It would reduce Chiniese eco power, but just by a slight margin. Magyars on the other hand finally get an eco bonus, without supporting their scout rush. In fact that bonus just delays the first reseed and saves wood in castle age, where Magyrs are not great anyway. Besides that, the Chinese team bonus would even fit the way, that Hungary is located in the danubian area that is known as one of the most fertile farmlads on earth - even today. The extra line of sight for foot archers would also fit quite well in Chinese strong archer line.
Although I have no idea, if this swap would cause balance issues (I doubt that but who knows), I think it would be quite tasty.
14 Likes
This is probably one of the most reasonable balance threads I’ve seen on here. I don’t think Magyars would become OP with the extra food on the farm, it’d make them a slight bit more resilient against laming, while Chinese would become a tiny bit more vulnerable to it, since the dark age farms would become standard food amount. Hmm I think the change would likely be OK.
7 Likes
Seems good, I always found strange that magyar bonus was for foot archers, when the civ is designed around cavalry archers. For the Chinese it would make more sense for sure.
1 Like
It’s kind of pointless. Trying to nerf Chinese like that is like trying to stop a train with a paper barricade, and buffing Magyars like that would likely not change the situations they are picked for. If TB swapping has to happen at least keep it in theme and swap the Chinese and Inca TB ig.
It’s the only civ with both FU paladins and arbs, this has to mean something.
2 Likes
Because Magyars are meant to play very diverse techtree that only civ can train both FU arbs and FU paladin. Also Magyars FU HCA are already strongest Cav archer in the game and don’t give them more strength is logical decision.
Obviously, I didn’t want a cavalry archer buff, I just said I found it strange, like if Cumans team bonus was 10% faster infantry.
The suggestions goal in this thread is not a big China nerf. It is just about the situation, that theese two civs have a team bonus bonus, that would fit better to the other one, especially stylewise. the balance change, that comes with it, might be a positive side effect, but is quite small and not even the main purpose.
1 Like
The way the Magyar civ works is that it’s really powerful militarily. They’re the only civilization that have fully upgraded Arbalesters and Paladins AND the most powerful HCAs in the game.
The way they’re “paying” for it is by having a weak economy, mediocre siege and monks and lack of gunpowder.
1 Like
If Magyars were a random eastern european cavalry civ sure, but a farming bonus doesnt really fit Magyars imo.
Magyars are surprisingly hard to balance honestly
What many people don´t keep in mind ist the fact, that farm capaity is not a farming bonus at all. In fact it is a slight wood bonus, since it delays the reseed time. The Chinese team bonus usually shows its effect in castle age, where the first ressed round has to be done. Since the beginn of castle age is a bit wood intensive - especially with the town centers, the reseed delay is slight help. Beides that, this team bonus barely has a effect.
After all, I doubt that swaping this bonus would cause a significant change at all. The idea is more stylewise, since magyar bonus fits better for Chine and Chineese one better for Magyar and the combination of the three eco boons on China is often critisied anyway.
2 Likes
I like that idea as well. You’re correct, it’s a wood bonus, and only kicking in in Castle, and becoming very significant the longer the game goes on. Interestingly, Magyars are meant to be a powerhouse, as it’s been stated above, but their results in closed maps such as Arena are surprisignly a disaster (the worst civ actually…).
There are way worse civs (eg: huns), but that’s not the point. They’re supposed to amazing on open maps during late game. They lack the siege to be a closed map powerhouse
Aoestats dot io disagrees with you. Huns are better than Mags (which are ranked 37th, both on All elos and 1650+ elos) on Arena.
Magyars are ranked 24th on Arabia (165+ elo) and 15th overall. So no, they’re not amazing on open maps either.
Aoe.stats is a pile of crap when it comes to understand balance.
Ask to any arena specialists and he’ll tell you huns are terrible because they just die to halbs onagers since they have literally no counter to it
2 Likes
Magyars are supposed to amazing in the late game, the problem is arrving there. That’ their whole thing: once you have hussar/magyar hussar + Heavy CA you are fine, but you’ll be behind in eco the whole game
1 Like
Now look at this:
Clearly Huns are exceptionally bad here, hell even Sicilians have better winrate here
So, win rates are lying ? Who told you that Huns were great on Arena ? I said they’re above Magyars overall, which isn’t a very good sign on Arena.
Now that’s interesting. Where did you find this graphic ?
Thanks ! Indeed the pros have 50% with Magyars while 48% huns. Magyars still last and way behind Huns in overall ratings, but i guess the pro scene should be prioritized here.
