Huns are literally the worst civ on Arena, they have no counter to Siege.
The bonus helps mostly on feudal so no it doesnt fit Magyars better than how it fits Chinese. Also giving Magyars a farming bonua is a weird idea in general (a TC bonua qould fit better.
Either way not a big deal. This change would probably be fine
Here we go again. The top 5 arabia civs are considered to be:
- Chinese
- Mayans
- Vikings
- Franks
- Aztecs
The win% percentage says:
- Mayans (pretty accurate)
- Indians (lmao what)
- Incas (what but not as bad as Indians)
- Franks (true)
- Berbers (what?)
6 Chinese (so, the best arabia civ has sixth best winrate)
âŚ
(9). Aztecs
âŚ
(11). Vikings
The best arena civ are considered to be
- Malay
- Britons
- Byzantines
- Lithuanians
- Turks
The win% says:
- Vikings (who usually die to literally onagers + anything)
- Byzantines
- Spanish (good but not that good)
- Malay
- Portoguese (good but not that good)
âŚ
(13). Brits
âŚ
(17). Turks
âŚ
(31). Lithuanians
Ladder win% means literally nothing, especially with a category as broad as 1650+, where there are both players at my level and at Viperâs level.
And yeah, Huns are the worst arena civ around, countered by literally every civs who can field onagers
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cough
How are those better than Teutons? + Teutons counter Aztecs on Arena.
Mostly Viperâs opinion, who places Aztecs and Teutons at basically the same level of Turks and Liths, but still.
I remember your opinion, just like I remember your âMalays will be a top pocket civ because their eles are dirt cheapâ etc. Berbers are still a B tier civ and Malay are still not used as pockets
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Aoestats is accurate still, for broader ranges of ratings. Numbers donât lie.
165+ is already the top 1% wordwide, so you belong to the most relevant category, even though you canât compete with Viper. If you want to call relevant, only the stats applying to the top 100, then you are correct. 1650+ provides a wider sample, and is more reasonable to me in order to provide more data for stats.
So, Magyars > Huns on Arena, for the top 100 only. 99.9% of the population is the other way around. Choose whatever fits to you.
Regarding the actual topic : In any ways, Magyars are pretty bad on closed maps, and the worst civ on Arena for 99.9% of the wolrdwide population. Thatâs why i think the Chinese bonus applied to them wouldnât be something bad or game breaking.
And were Magyars known for their farming? No, they were Nomands at the start.
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Malay are one of, if not the best, arena civs in the entire game.
The pocket meta is to play as a civ with population efficient, mobile units. Neither of these things support the Malay. Just as they didnât support the Khmer. You tend to read something, completely forget what was written, then do a 180 and tell people what they said, which is why you get into flame wars, so let me go back and remind you what I said:
Nothing about Malay in Pocket. Everything about Malay being clearly superior to Khmer, which is, by comparison, a laughable pocket civ that the forums were complaining about because the forum goers are bad. Everything to do with Malay being absolutely, ridiculously overbuffed, and itâll only be a matter of time before the reasonable players figure it out and theyâll be in dire need of nerfs.
Everyone clear on how he totally, completely lost the plot, and decided to be prickly about it? Good. Go ahead and keep being prickly about it.
I donât know if Magyars are known for their good farming. The OP suggested that with some arguments though, but iâm not knowledgeable in the matter. I just say that it wonât break the game imo.
And the OP missed the whole point of design and balance.
When everyone played Khmer as pockets you told me that Malay did it better than them, yet no one ever used them. Just because we are not going back to those posts doesnât mean you didnât write them.
To believe that you must really understand jackshit about what was happening in that period in the game. There was a reason every 4v4 had a Khmer pocket when you could freely pick. I really wonder why, everyone must be stupid, including every 2k+ player who was complaining on aoezone.
No dude, I didnât lose anything. You came here with your âIâm surprised no one consider Berbers S tierâ which is on pair with your old âMalays do everything Khmer do betterâ when Khmer were overwhelmingly good and were clearly the best pocket civ in the game.
Also, this has nothing to do with Malay on arena, as you can clearly see I already stated they are the best civ on that setting. Looks like you are the one who canât read
A lot of time has passed since you claimed that for the first time (aka when Khmer were broken). Nothing has changed. Nothing. Guess you werenât right dude and no, Malay were considered an amazing arena civ even before DE, so nothing new about that
Small edit: hereâs you calling what was at the time one of the strongest eco bonus in the game a meme and telling everyone in your âvery well informed opinionâ that Malays were better than Khmer in a thread about Khmer as a pocket.
Itâs july 2021, are the Malay finally meta now on open maps or have I missed it?
Correct. Thatâs not claiming the Malay are a good pocket. Thatâs simply claiming they do it better than the Khmer. Also, if youâd care not to be disingenuous about this for about a second, youâll acknowledge those who were actually reasonable on the AOEzone forums werenât freaking out about the big dumb stompies ruining team games⌠they were complaining about the Khmer farming bonus being too efficient.
But letâs not get too deep into the weeds. Zero teamgame tournament matches saw elephants. Find one and prove me wrong. Otherwise youâre just saying words. Which you can do as you please, I donât see a reason I need to pay any mind to them though.
As Iâve said multiple times in the past, the reason Malay sit on the back burner a lot, and also generally suffer in overall winrate is because their economy bonus is complicated to maximize, and worse, failing to take their particular economy into account can actually hurt you, not help you. Itâs not about strength of civ, itâs about difficulty of adaptation in an extremely complex, highly randomized game with tons of variables to account.
Those variables accounted for, in skilled hands, the Malay are way better. Itâs not even close. Their tech tree (save the cavalry) is deeper, they are better on more maps, their economy is absurd if you take advantage of it properly, and once they get to the ultra-lategame, their trash is among the best.
Khmer was a pub stomp pick, and you were the pub.
This has nothing to do with Malay in pocket, as you can clearly see I already stated Elephants are a bad pocket play as far as competitive games go. You know whatâs different between competitive play and random pub matches? No slinging.
Give an elephant civ three economies worth of resources in castle age and youâd bet itâd be a problem. Thatâs why slinging is banned in tournaments until later ages. Within the rules the competitive scene uses, Elephants are laughable. All that being said, Malay are clearly better as the Elephant producer. Fite me.
We had a long time to wait before Incan trush became a thing. You think the meta adapts overnight. Iâm here to tell you, youâve lost the plot. The âmetaâ is still shifting. Weâre going to be here a while.
So are you done now that youâve found what Iâve said to be totally accurate to the dot, that I didnât call Malay a good pocket, I called them a better pocket than Khmer?
You donât have to be a good pocket to be better than Khmer. You just need to do something remarkable.
RIP Chinese scouts lol
But idk why I donât dislike this change.
Just a bit worried it could nerf Chinese too much. Magyars should benefit just enough from the swap tho.
The discussion arround that thread is getting quite interesting. Anyway, please stick to the thread (pocket civ potetial for Khemer and things like that shall have own threads).
Concerning the question, if a farming bonus fits to the Magyrs in a historical way (if this really matters in the end), here is some addition:
Barely a playable civ was known for superior skills in farming and as far as I know, Magyars were not either. But we can keep in mind, that Magyars are Hungary (In the german version of the game, Magyars are even called âUngarnâ, which is the same Name that Hungary is called in the german language today. And many or even most Hungarians speak German on a high level). Hungary is located in the danubian area right at the Eastern border of Austria. Already in times of ancient Rome, the region in the eastern part of Austria and Hungary (called the province of Pannonia) was known for its fertile farmland and therefore populated by Romans and natives alike. Even today, the whole region is heavily used for farming for the same reason (to cut that short, the region has a very fertile, nearly black, earth that contains a good mix of minerals based on geologic reasons).
To return to the team bonus: A slight bonus to farm capacity results more to fertile land as it does to farming skills. Therefore, the bonus would fit very well to the Magyrs location and to the civ as well.
I don´t know, if the team bonus swap, this thread is about, would cause a balance problem (although i don`t think its significant enough to do so), but a lack of historical background is definitly not an obstacle.
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No. Most Hungarians do not speak German.
Most might be a bit too much, but usually they prefer to use German over English if they have to talk in a foreign language. But even that is not the threads topic.
No, majority learns English in schools.
Berbers are not S Tier. They are one-dimensional and depend on the Camel Archerâs insane stats to get out of a tough situation. They get shut down by a castle age pike siege push, which they greatly struggle against.