Chinese civilization is very strange to use

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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1.The sphere of influence of other civilizations can be extended by the construction of specific buildings,but the influence of the Chinese was always limited to a small area of the Imperial Academy,it becomes less and less useful later in the game.So, I suggest that all landmarks provide influence and collect taxes like the Imperial Academy.In order to balance, the amount of taxes produced can be reduced.The effect of the Imperial Academy can be changed to having a larger sphere of influence, increasing the limit of one imperial official, and obtaining one imperial official for free after construction.

2.From the characteristics of each dynasty in the game, we can see:The Tang Dynasty represents population growth,The Song Dynasty represented economic prosperity,The Yuan Dynasty represented raid and harassment,The Ming Dynasty represents the final battle.
The Song effect is the same as the French civilization characteristics, and in order to suit Tang characteristics, I think it can be changed this way:Village raise the cost, can produce villagers (reasonable！), but the production time is extremely long; Song effect changed to gain 10% more gold (including mining, taxes, trader).
Yuan acceleration effect is not new, many civilizations have similar effects, it is recommended that all units charge faster, and can trigger charge more frequently.This will also work well with the fire lancer and increases chances of being countered.
The Ming Dynasty is the biggest problem, the cost is too high, the benefit is too small, it is hard to see the Ming Dynasty in 1v1 play a role. In keeping with the Chinese theme of gunpowder, it is suggested that effect changed to all gunpowder units attack speed be increased.In addition, the second landmark of each dynasty must be reduced in price (20% / 35% / 50%).

3.Grenadier is a joke！Grenadiers may be good in numbers, but in general it is impossible to achieve, most of the time they are junk units.Proposed change: Drastically reduce attack speed, but all units hit by Grenadiers are marked within 5 seconds, and each time they take damage they take 2 extra damage.In this way, it can be used even in a small number. It also works well with Zhuge Nu and Nest of bees.

4.The Imperial Palace looks useful, but it is weak compared to other civilization landmarks. A new effect is proposed: After the death of the Palace Guards, the attack speed of other units is increased by 20% and they recover 2 health per second for 10 seconds (same effect as the Spirit Way).

Hopefully someone can add to that.

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5.Dynasty effect is best inherited.

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  1. the eco is already so strong as it is, no need for change here
  2. it used to be op
  3. landmark is fine. china is in good shape as itis
  4. lol china dont need more buffs
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I think China landmarks is quite lackluster comparing to other civ, but that doesn’t mean that it should be buffed. As it is already in a good spot.

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另一篇期待日本的文章裡，日本可以強化騎兵、海軍、鐵砲等，一整個全能。但是只要說中國需要加強什麼，總有一群動物說中國不需要改動。

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If some aspects are too op, it can be completely weakened, because the main discussion here is not strong or weak, but the following aspects:
1.Some of the effects are too boring to duplicate other civilizations. For example, HRE unique technology and sofa effects are too similar to the Yuan effect, so it is necessary to have some new effects that conform to the original characteristics.
2.The characteristics of Chinese civilization can not be fully displayed, the Ming Dynasty and the Grenadier can not be seen in the 1v1. Personally, I like the Ottomans design very much. Every feature of it works together and reflects its theme. Chinese seem to be able to do everything, but they are not proficient in anything. It give me the feeling that it is a monster stacked with organs，maybe strong but lack the beauty of human body.

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i like china, and i hate ottomon very much… so we just have different views

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我喜歡日本，只要日本保持現在這樣不存在於AOE4 裡就好了。

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Well, I have some ideas, but I still think chinese’s current state is viable. Tho some landmarks is too mediocre imo,

  • Barbican of the sun is just an outpost comparing to its counterpart like Kremlin and Malian’s Saharan which both offer economic bonus along with its ability to garrison, Kremlin’s militia is also good in controlling the tempo. So think, if you wanna buff it a bit may be, it comes with the castle age research to allow Castles to be a tax drop off.
  • Clockwork tw: may be it can be toggle on and off if you want it to have HP buff or not, when it is toggled off you can supervise it with IO, to get the production speed in exchange to HP buff.
  • Imperial palace:: I think this one is only good in team game or FFA. imo if this landmark can be improved in many ways. e.g. comes with research to have an extra IO with each dynasty completed (excluded Tang). Or it can research battle harden and elite army tactic in age III.
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in your list i think the landmarks are strong enough, there isn’t a need for more buffs…

however…
IO production speed on clockwork tower is something i’d wanna see and its sensible.

and something needs to be done with grenadiers

in the past it was too strong, and now its too weak…

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Great idea!
I have some different ideas about the landmarks.

1.Barbican of the sun:
Since this is a defense-oriented landmark, it can be changed to: the stone walls built near the Barbican of the sun are free, but not too many, or the original price will be restored.

2.Astronomical Clocktower:
It will no longer be able to produce Clocktower siege, but will be used as a general siege workshop, which can be supervised by IO, but will be able to convert all siege (like Rus’s ship morphing) into Clocktower siege at a cost of additional resources and time.

  1. Imperial palace:
    This landmark is really very strange, it does a little bit of work, but not much, and it doesn’t match the cost of building it at all. I can’t agree more with your suggestion.

4.Spirit Way:
The Spirit Way buffs are also weird, only units that are head-to-head (like the Palace Guards) have the most effect, but zhuge nu, fire lancer, and Grenadier are not head-to-head units. This is also the biggest problem with the Chinese: there are a lot of buffs to look at, but none of them are fully utilized and it feel deformed to use.

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Ye, I try to keep it not to overpower suggestion by making the small buff in a form of research tech. I also feel like Clockwork being able to supervise would be only thing I really want now.

Agree that Granedier is too weak, but it used to storm every game like Nomad FFA, so buffing it might be hard. Maybe reducing cost instead to match its nerf. But I still won’t make it anw.

This might be too OP imo and it could bring back the OP siege cluster, the HP buff would be reduced if this allows.

This is actually true imo, the atk speed buff is not included when fire lancer burning building as well. So you might need to delete a ZGN to make it more effective ig, but again radius is quite small and at that stage u always go with staggered formation to avoid mango.

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Chinese influence is global that is why you cannot extend it. Buildings accumulate taxes no matter where they are. The landmark is a local boost of the influence amd it is local for balance reasons.

Ottomans and Mongols cannot extend the influence by constructing buildings. Mongols can’t even spam ovoos.

Similarly, French, have to make more keeps (which cam be pemalizing in terms of payoff). English, cannot extend their mills areas of influence. They make new mills and cannot have the influence directly affecting the TC for example.

Malians cannot extend their influence for obvious reasons and the number of pits they can make is limited.

How is the scout’s improved line of sight related to population growth?

I won’t comment on the rest of your points since you already started by making totally false statements and in the rest you felt like having a monologue with self-validation… (quote “Reasonable!”)

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You completely misunderstand my meaning.

First, taxes are a special mechanism for the Chinese, not influence, and the two cannot be considered the same thing.I do not mean that other civilizations can build buildings to expand their influence, but that every civilization has one or two buildings associated with influence, and most of these buildings can build more than one, while Chinese influence is associated with only one building.For example, the French associated keep, the British associated mill, and the Ottomans associated ######### and the University. Although the Abbasid Dynasty associated only one building, the Palace of Wisdom could represent all landmarks. These civilizations were able to expand their influence by building multiple specific buildings, and the Chinese were very different.

Don’t worry about balance,you can reduce the amount of tax generated to keep the revenue constant.

As for the definition of the Tang Dynasty, I mean that the Tang Dynasty is associated with population growth because it has special built villages. Any sane person can see that the scouts’ visual effects have nothing to do with population growth.

As for the other points, since you don’t want to comment, I don’t know what the mistake is, and I can’t explain it, it’s not a good attitude to continue the discussion.

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Mongols can only build ### #### (dumb algorithm censoring the name of the Mongols’ building) not counting the landmark and it has a verh small area of influence.

They can also see that Song is the one associated with population growth

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ya i found the censoring really funny

at one point
if you typed
“a”
“b”
“c”

in game

it’d censor c lol

but you know, its a “modern” game, censoring is soooooooooo complicated. 1111111111 (just removing censor? why waste effort on useless garbage when i can workaround it easily.)

i mean if i were to just type f y m people can understand it anyway.

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The influence of the Mongols is powerful and unique, and rightfully limited, and if it can expand its sphere of influence like other civilizations, it will become difficult to balance, and it should be excluded from the discussion.

I know that the Song Dynasty also matched the characteristics of population growth, and in order to seem coherent and comfortable, the Tang Dynasty had to have a reasonable character.So as I said before, since the Song effect is the same as the French, I think it can transfer the characteristics of population growth completely to the Tang.The Song can change the effect that it only corresponds to one characteristic.

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The Chinese influence is also powerful and unique and rightfully limited.

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As I mentioned earlier, Chinese influence can be easily balanced by numerical changes even though it is no limit, but this is not the case with Mongols.

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They would be worse off. Nobody wants the imperial officials to be walking very long distances instead of having a confined area in which to collect big proportion of taxes. Having taxes all over the place means a cluncky gameplay and that is why in the late game people focus on collecting taxes in a high concentration area. Making the double taxation global will not fix the problem of skipping many areas due to walking inefficiencies, while nerfing the generic taxes and buffing the academy ones would make chinese much stronger mid/late game.

Tbh this thread sounds like a “buff” Chinese" thread in a disguise. Chinese are already top boom civ and a top civ when it comes to economic bonusee. Yet you are requesting giving them a Dark Age Town Center on top and buffing their economic bonuses.

It is the case with Mongols but mongols are limited by stone until they are trading like crazy in which case they hardly care about double production. Your initial logic was that chinese needs an extendable influence to “be like other civs” and now you changed your logic just for the sake of refuting my argument and want to justify that mongols don’t need to have an influence “like the others”