Chinese Grenadier in PUP is OP!

The fact that AOE4 does not have friendly-fire, makes units with AOE area of effect super OP!

AOE4 grenadiers in PUP are OP now! Once more!
They can drop a nade on their foot and kill all enemies attacking them.
Also, grenadiers have 120hp, which is super tanky!
Only 2 types of solutions are left to keep it balanced and fun.

1 - decrease attack speed and hp dramatically!
It needs to have a 70hp maximum. 120 is tanky.

2 - don’t change any stats, add friendly-fire.

As you can see, solution 2 is the best!
It will make it a situational unit.

Solution 1 makes it dull with weaker stats.


I would go with number 1, as someone who has designed grenadiers into a RTS title, adding friendly fire will basically render them to much of a risk to use in combat and would make it safer to go with something different. So number 1 is the best choice for general use and enjoyment.

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to get grenadier you need to age up imperial twice, considering the cost of the unit and the cost of the 2 age 4 building its fair that its a powerful unit


The harsh manufacturing conditions are sufficient for his strong abilities to be rewarded.

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Comment corrected for the mistake made.

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i mean in 1v1 u will almost never see the unit and if u do u deserv to win in my opinion the investment u need to do ,to even make the unit on top of how expansive it is. it deservs to be strong.


Completely wrong. Grenadiers are not OP at all in PUP. Right now in the game, they are absolutely useless. It is good to finally see them a bit useful. They are strong indeed, but all you need is a few microed mangonel shots and they are out. China is super hard to play and they have basically nothing good except the zuge nu which become useless from castle age. China need that tiny buff. A buff that is super hard to get to since you need Ming Dinasty… Please do not listen to crying players.


The grenadier is fine as it is in the PUP. If you think it’s op it’s because you don’t know how to counter. Mass mangonel will obliterate grenadiers even they got 150 up. Mass longbow with dissipating formation will also beat them because grenadier’s area attack won’t work. Mass knight can also beat them with dissipating formation. In the case of mangonel (which is most effective) china don’t have enough counter measures because they don’t have culver in and clocktower springalds take too much time to make.


In my opinion, if we consider reducing grenadier’s attack speed, we should also consider reducing its cost appropriately. Or just reduce its health to make it more easily to be countered.

Actually grenadier can counter all heavy armour melee units. Of course you will suffer if you attack them with those knights.
Grenadier do have power to crush other melee units, but Its cost-effectiveness is poor when facing ranged fire.

Grenadier is not an easily obtainable auto-win unit. Don’t forget that it is a unit cost 240, and its appearance requires an additional 3600 resources to be spent on the second landmark.


its okey, It’s a “Hard” unit to unlock, you literally need to be in Imperial and build another Imperial cost landmark to unlock it (2400 food and 1200 gold).

In fact, this is the effect I was hoping to see to test a new American unit, “The Slinger”, which would also do siege damage instead of range, but in exchange for not receiving ranged damage buffs at the smithy, (only than without area damage).

As can be seen, it would make the slingers Ultra-effective if they were mass produced. Of course, since it is a balanced game, they need counters, and in real life (Realism mode activated) if a large number of grenadiers attacked a point, they would have to move back to avoid attacking themselves. So the unit must be balanced:

Some possible solution to balance the new Grenadier

1.- Reduce its minimum range and increase its maximum range (Realism):
While there is no friendly fire in Aoe4, you still can’t throw a grenade at point blank range. Whether their range is (1 - 3.5) or (2 - 3.5), but attacking at close range breaks the idea that they are supposed to be a hybrid ranged-siege units and that they should be weak to attack at close range. On the other hand, I guess it was expected that there are units that protect them while they throw the grenade, adding minimum range to them can be done.

2.- Reduce its attack speed:
It could be 2,125 instead of 1,625, you don’t throw grenades like arrows, you have to know where to throw, and light the fuse at the right time, even throwing it at a good distance requires a lot of arm strength, and more if they are supposed to be capable grenades to destroy houses or castles.

3.- Add unit type: Siege
Thus they receive an extra damage bonus from the springald and light cavalry and have a respective counter, and with that if one can’t go against their mass, it’s because you don’t counter them well enough.

4.- Reduce its HP + Add Siege unit type
I don’t know why it has 150 HP. Are they imperial soldiers walking around with a lot of heavy armor? If they are, they should either have more armor or slower speed, especially if they carry a bag full of heavy military grenades, similar to siege. I guess it’s “Aoe reference” of AoE-III unit, with the “Grenadier” having more HP (200) and resistance (50% vs. Ranged) than the musketeers (HP:150) to act as a counter to them. If they become siege-ranged infantry type.

In fact, their HP can be reduced to 125, and if the type “siege unit” is added, if they receive the “Siege engines” bonus they can increase their HP by 25 and their missile defense by 10, in any case their weakness is supposed to be be the melee so they would be fine.

Finally, some images of the AoE-III grenadier, with some annotations to compare with the Aoe4 version:

I think the key point lies in the designing of the grenadier. The design of AOE4 for grenadier is obviously different from AOE3.

In AOE3, grenadier was a kind of lightweight falconet, used for countering buildings and heavy infantry. It was good at resisting range firepower but not good at dealing with melee attacks.

But in AOE4, grenadier was used to transform advantageous resources into assault forces for winning in the latest game, so you’ll find that grenadier was more like a kind of heavy infantry, expensive but good at defeat other melee units, its weakness was ranged firepower which the grenadiers of AOE3 were not afraid.

You will discover Relic always reduce grenadier’s range when they wanna nerfed it, this shows that Relic were hoping that the weakness of the grenadier was long-range firepower but not melee attack.
That’s why I said that we might consider reducing grenadier’s HP to make it more easily to be countered if we do need nerf it.

In other words, in this design, it is not a problem that the grenadiers can defeat a group of knights. But it is really a problem if grenadiers can defeat a large group of longbows.

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Let’s see the design of dynasty, you will find things becoming clearer.

Song dynasty in age2 were used to developing, Yuan dynasty in age3 were used to seesaw, Ming dynasty in age4 were used to strike.
Chinese need the power to break through in the lastest game. They got NOB if they need fire support, they got fire lancer if they need harassment, and they got nothing but grenadier if they need assault force.

So I will never suggest you to use cavalry to attack grenadiers, grenadiers are indeed powerful forces that can crush all melee attacks. What you need to do is use long-range firepower to consume them but not try defeat them with just one frontal attack.

Honestly, I am not sure whether this unit really needs to be nerfed, I just don’t want to see Relic change its design. Maybe they really reduced the grenadier’s HP in the next version.

By the way, I love your design of Slinger, I hope similar units can be published in the game soon.

this unit was always op people werent using it because they thinked they are useless.If their name doesnt presented in pup it will probably have been 1 year for people to realize how op they are their pop cost need to increased since they are act like a siege unit or their area damage need to be lower


its not an auto win its not armored so can be countered by knights and crossbow, and china is still weak at second age because it doesn’t have anything to counter MAA, i think grenadier update is fair considering the fact that you have to get ming dynasty so its cost twice imparial age, and the unit is expansive,
if they reduce the attack damage or the health it would be a useless unit

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Do u want to test it?

ok, what is/are your main civ ?

Cant you just take them out with Bows?

Comment corrected for the mistake made.

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delhi new unit at age 2 wich is quite strong, chinese still have only archers and spare mens, chu ko nuet if you reach song dynasty but they got nerf

Lets try to test it with/without counting the rss of 2nd landmarks.