Chinese Grenadier in PUP is OP!

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
41

Indeed, balance is important. There are actually certain balance mechanics that I discovered while making Civ concepts that were stable.

One of them is that almost all Civs have, yes or yes, minimum 5 and maximum 6 military units in the feudal age. Usually there are 4 classic ones (scout, spearman, archer, horsemen) included as unique unit variations, and a fifth “Extra”. Economic units do not count nor do special landmark units.

1.-Scout
2- spearman
3- archer
4- Horsemen
5- Extra: (Early Knight, Early Men-at-Arm, Camel Archer, etc)

English: Scout, MaA*, spearman, Longbowman*, Horsemen
Rus: Scout, spearman, archer, Horsemen, Early Knight*
Chinese: Scout, spearman, archer, Horsemen, ################### Mali: W.Scout*, H.Spearman*, Musofadi*, archer, J.Thrower*, Sofa*
DelhiS: Scout, Spearman, archer, Raider, schooler*.
Ottoman: Scout, Spearman, archer, Sipahi, Mehter*.

Not count: Imperial Official, Cows, Prelates, Rus Militia, King.

Technically, one can be Song as Chinese in Castle Age, because dynasties depend on Landmarks built, and in that age you can build Lancers and Guard Palaces, so they have heavy infantry and cavalry, but as you say, not early as one want by " balance issues".

Mali is an exception to the rule of 5, because this is how they represent that the Mali Empire was great and glorious in its beginnings (1200-1350), but then it declined (1350-1400), and for this reason they do not have a single unique unit in Castles. On the other hand, it also favors its Rush civilization nature, they can practically rush you in 6 different ways, including the Scout rush, but then they fall into imperial due to the lack of units with heavy armor, apart from the Sofa.

ABOUT THE RECENT TESTING IN THE FORUM.-
On the other hand, I find it curious that the tests now show that the unit is efficient, but it is not as broken as some youtubers made it seem, mainly because they did not test a real concentrated attack.

1 Like
43

lmao, turns out he was talking about himself.

1 Like
44

Just tell me the role of grenadiers if you know this unit well.
Then I can confirm you are not one of them.

45

You are talking about why this China Grenadier in PUP is OP, everyone tries to reason with you that it is not. In facts, it can simply be countered by normal units like archer, Hand cannoner and horsemen, you weren’t listened. And now trying to change the topic to ThIS UNiT iS HiSTorIcAL iNAcCuRAtEd, FrIENdly Fireeeed. Nobody buying it.

2 Likes
46

Keep the grens change, give chinese early handcannoneer in castle age, make chinese start with IO but less 100 food and 50 gold, and give chinese triple crossbow as springald replacement (as the Documentary that AoE4 release)

2 Likes
47

Oh, so you don’t know this unit and its role.

I believe my question was simple, yet you didn’t answer it.

Well, now you just proved you are one of them.

Thanks for doing the difficult part for me!

48

I’ts a an end game decisive anti mass melee units ranged unit (read it slowly so you understand) that do very well against building, weak to mangonels, Nest of bees and specialized units like sipahis and longbows

1 Like
49

It doesn’t matter, he knows that his argument is losing, due to the bad test result. Therefore, he, as a loud crying player, is trying to change the topic to spread his senseless opinion, to keep making an argument about friendly fire that nobody cares.

2 Likes
50

WOW, using such strong words xD
“Nobody Cares”
What a hater you are!

51

Most of the words I used are rephased from urs xD. It is not that strong ig, unless you are a hater as well.

It’s true, I don’t think most AOE4 players want a friendly fire function.

52

I do not think starting IO, early HC are necessary, but my opinion is quite subjective.

  • Starting IO: Actually starting with an extra villager is better than a starting IO, except against rus when you might want to make 2nd scout.
  • HC is pretty expensive. It might delay imperial time by a lot, and I think xbow serves its role well in age 3. Plus, I don’t wanna spend rss on upgrading Elite HC. Also not sure if chemistry applied before entering imperial or not. if not it will be quite weak.

About the grens change: I don’t mind keeping or reverting it. The unit is too expensive to get and to make, and can be beaten with general units like bows and horsemen with split formation. it’s good against melee cluster l#ke MaA. But by the time we are able to get Ming, that is hardly any threat (imo MaA mass is most Dangerous when enemy aged up in castle a few mins ahead of u).

The only change I want for China but not sure it gonna make it too OP or not is: Clockwork TW can toggle on/off. When it is off, IO Can supervise it, but the supervised siege will have NO 50% HP buff. So you need to choose between a fast siege or a siege with HP buff.

55

Chemistry apply even in dark age, if you pay attention, NoB get 8+2 damage per rocket even in castle age, starting IO make you not down 1 villager compared to other player, and open possibility to start comfortably with 2 scouts in map like prairie, or against rus. Well, there is a bug where Clocktower don’t benefit from military academy tech from BS, while other landmark lik burger, and college of artilerry do.

56

I will happily use a lots of grens in TG tho

57

Starting IO is worse than one extra vill as you get 12 rss lower in the 1st 20ish second.

china can arrive at age II faster than most civs (2nd only to HRE), I think that implies that 1 villager Down is not really an issue, or need the buff.

Ye that bug is a shame considering that they fixed the same bug from college of Artillery this patch, but not the clockwork TW.

Ye I actually can imagine, a lot of complaint about grenadier next patch will come from the Team game especially in 4v4.

58

Well, Rus can go faster, and english can go council hall that give power spike immediately, and we also need second scout srat for Chinese, and +1 or 2 vills seems too obviously OP, not like starting with IO, BTW HRE start with prelate too, previously, it is hard to justify second scout immediately for HRE, now i’ts not for HRE, and they can take that advantage in prairie to burger rush, well starting IO also nerf chinese water map slightly.

And i want HC in castle for historical accuracy please.

And triple crossbow siege engine just like documentary.

No fancy unit request like Teutonic Knight, Deli Cavalry, Ritterbruder, Mosquieter or anything like that

59

Nah if the amout of vills building the landmark are the same, China can arrive age ii faster.

China eco can get a stable and two horsemen as Early as at 4 - 4.10 mins, which pretty much counter any of those English tempo. If start with an Extra IO that number could even go like 10-15 sec faster.

About HRE, ye starting prelate is a significant Advantage xD, I agree. I also don’t like playing against HRE as well. But, imo, we cannot buff a civ (China) just to make it better dealing with another civ (HRE), while another 8 civs suffer dealing with china early eco boost. Besides, burger rush can be deal with if you prepare the resource on time (not too greedy).

60

Please, moderate your words sir.

61

Oh, you mean feudal without song, well yeah, that will do, but i still want that starting IO XD

62

Well, a buff in something unnecessary might come with a nerf that China don’t want. For example, an extra IO is given, but the extra resource from supervision reduced to 15%.

But maybe you are right considering most civs get a buff in units, while only china and HRE in the Early game have been getting almost nothing next patch and many patches before. IG we need to see how the balance/meta goes.

63

Well, let’s see, if chinese will really struggle against other feudal civ, i think starting IO is not that bad, especially other civ’s water is buffed so Chinese will somehow lose dominance in water