It would be great if the wonders of China could exchange 250 tea for a Flying Crow,
With the first Flying Crow produced, I will own two.
I can try an extreme Early oppression
It would be great if the wonders of China could exchange 250 tea for a Flying Crow,
I would rather allow them to ship
Then Remove Falconet (this country’s civilization cannot be produced)
This has been suggested over and over, but thats not even a card for China in Age 2. Obviously this is absurd, since this unit is both overpriced being 170 wood + 170 gold (and for some reason its 4 population) for its performance, but also a 2 Flamethrower shipment would still be less than 700 ressources, the “standard” ressource value of an Age 2 shipment. Compare a 2 Leather Cannon shipment to this 2 Flamethrower shipment, which doesn’t even exist. 2 Flamethrowers would still be worse than the current 2 Leather cannon shipment being 2 more population, less ressource value and less useful due to Leather cannons having 21 range.
If you read above, me and many others have suggested to both buff the flamethrower by giving it additional range (and/or speed) from upgrading similar to how Abus guns receive additional range from upgrades. This is an easy solution to giving China a better Age 2 and a more varied Age 2 by offering more aggressive potential via 2 Flamethrower shipment. And by giving Flamethrowers more range from upgrading, you can upgrade them in Age 2 and have them be more useful.
There is never a point in the game where you would want to build Flamethrowers. China is weak in Age 1 because for some reason they have 100 food less compared to the old game. China is basically unplayable because 12/10 exist and france can just raid China. Just because China is too slow to age and they start with less food than they used to. You don’t want to stay in Age 2 for too long. And once you hit Age 3, your Flamethrowers are not upgraded like veteran units so they have trouble competing with upgraded units. Then again there is no reason to even upgrade flamethrowers because they will ge going up against 20 range Skirms, Dragoons and Falconetts which can all snipe them.
Change flamethrowers to the army of Commerce Age, and then China has a card that gives fire ships +50% damage, and additionally provides flamethrowers’ damage range. What about this idea?
Sounds like a fun combination to combine the Fire Ship card with some bonus to Flamethrowers. But its not going to work. The Fire ship card is an Age 3 card and China would want like 15 Age 3 cards if that were possible. China already has a card which buffs artillery - and Flamethrowers gain 20% HP and Damage from it, but its still bad because Flamethrowers are bad. The unit needs some tweaks and not rely on cards to be good.
I totally agree, after playing over 100 ranked 1v1 with China.
The biggest problem with me that they are sooooooooooooooooooo one dimensional. You absolutely HAVE TO GO TO FORTRESS, or your just die a slow and painful death.
The balance team should really give China a realistic way to boom and also a reasonable way to punish a boom from the opponent.
Here are some of my ideas:
- Give them 400 starting wood, and 200 export at the start.
- Change the Russian consulate effect to maybe -10% vill cost and -10% build time.
- Change the stats of Steppe Raider from 15 base 2* infantry to 20 base, 1.5* infantry, and the same kind of change for Iron Flail. Basically buff the base damage of the cavs and reduce the multipliers against infantry so they won’t completely destroy skirmishers. I don’t think I have to say too much about this, but man, Steppe Raiders and Iron Flails are the worst cavs in the entire game. They do a somewhat ok job against skirms, but will be destroyed by almost everything else. Part of it I think is because of very low base damage. Give it a buff and make them a bit better against other cavs.
- Move the Mongolian Scourge buff to Keshiks into Repealing Volley, and also grant them +10% damage. Mongolian Scourge is just a awkward card to sent in most situations. I’d rather have cav combat and siege damage in separate cards.
- Make some adjustments to flamethrowers. They cost like half a falc but are not as effective. 2 flamethrowers card in fortress is dogshit. At least it should be 4 flamethrowers or 2 infinite.
Nice idea! Iron Flails are constantly being brought up as being terrible, because their cost isn’t justified for what they offer. Having low base damage is whats killing them. Same with Steppe Riders. Part of why China is so terrible in Age 2 is that they just have no good cav unit. Steppe Riders are obviously not made for direct fights. But changing their base damage and adjusting the multiplier sounds like a great solution. China also has a card for +15% HP on Chuko Nu and Steppe Rider, but that card is not being used because you would never send it in Age 2, since China either goes Age 3 or dies.
You still have the issue that in Age 3 you definately don’t want to build Steppe Riders over Meteor Hammers. However upgrading Steppe Riders is only half the cost of a normal unit upgrade so it could still be worth it to upgrade them if you have a lot of them remaining.
The more I think about this, the more I love this idea. I’m not so sure about your other suggestions. But I think this one should be tested by the balance team!
Another option would be to change the German consulate by making it possible to get the 1.25 Wood trickle in Age 2. Currently you have the option of getting a 1.5 food trickle in Age 2, a Wood Trickle in Age 3 and a Coin trickle in Age 4.
The go-to Consulate for China is the British Consulate because of Redcoats and more HP on their units. However, if you wanted to play a longer game in Age 2, then having the option to go for German consulate, having cheaper food costs on armies, Food + Wood trickle does sound like a great option! Currently China is just terrible at a prolonged game in Age 2 and this would be a solution to give them just a bit more variety in builds, which is what they lack completely.
Other suggestions are just some rough ideas. Those are just my attempt to give China a way to boom its economy. Because China relies so heavily on fast fortress, I wonder if this change in consulate would give it more options. Because even if they buff China’s cav and anti cav, the civ still feels a bit one dimensional in terms of strategy. You still have to fortress, and your economy still cannot afford a heavier age 2 play.
And,Japanese 500 food and 300 wood starting.Chinese?200 Food,300 Wood?Could you tell me it’s joke?
Considering Japs villager will not idle and their monk build shrine, I can’t find any reason why japs need to start with 500f and 300w and they also get 1 orchard or 2 if the map didn’t have berry while other civs starting crate is 500-600 in total. I say reduce it to 400f 200w or 300f 200w 100c.
I mean, having hung around the ESO Community for a while, China isn’t weak, and like LEOLEEX711 said, the problem with China is that it’s mono-dimensional. The optimum strategy tends to congregate toward the “FF / Semi” meta, and anything other than that gets you killed.
That said, there are a few things China can do to fix its econ in Colonial, not that it’s really worth it.
First, White Pagoda can be treated as an economic wonder (on some maps) if you consider the free Disciples can allow a monk to take high-end treasures early. That can easily get you 1-2 shipments worth of XP, but it depends on whether the map has high-end treasures.
Second, Russian Consulate gives you 10% faster villager times. This is roughly the Russian economic boost, except that the shipments you get from the Russian Consulate are pretty bad.
There’s a couple of other ideas, but these are the two that work (sometimes). I’ve also tried going to Commerce early, and then sending in the villager card once I have multiple villages, but let’s be realistic. It doesn’t work. Boxer Rebellion / Village Defense rushes don’t work either, well, sometimes they do, but mainly because the opponent has no idea what they’re facing.
Basically, the history of China in AOE3 is that China started out with a really overpowered Colonial Age (now known as Commerce Age), and ESO dumped the nerf bat hard on Chinese Colonial. They compensated by adjusting Summer Palace to encourage Chinese FF, and that’s what the meta is now. At the time, Disciples were really overpowered and so was the Monk. Lots of things were broken with Chinese Colonial, they addressed everything at once, and bam, China is now a FF civ.
I thought you were crazy after reading this originally. I now agree with you 100%. Your wood crate from start can be used for market upgrades and help to conserve your first village till second age. Or even start tp, which would buff china to above average. Not a bad idea at all.
You could make the Trickle from German Consulate cheaper (food and wood), so that China could use that export along with the cheaper armies, to hold on colonial age.
This is a good suggestion. I have suggested something similar to buff China’s bad age 2. Move the wood trickle from German consulate from Age 3 to Age 2 and move the Coin Trickle from German consulate from Age 4 to Age 3. With French Consulate, China can send all ressource crates by Age 3, but in Age 2 you can only unlock a food trickle from German consulate.
This could synergize a lot better with good faith agreements, which is currently not a viable option in 1v1, because China is simply too slow to hit Age 2 and with bad economy.
There are plenty of posts on how to fix China and yet, the developers haven’t implemented any of them. I know they say they are listening, but I don’t wanna be left with a bad taste in my mouth once again if they are not buffed in the next patch.
I agree with you more
Moving the trickles down by one Age was a step in the right direction, but I really feel like devs just called it a day with it and the not very useful New Army change ( Beiyang Army viability was a nice addition). Here are some main points that could be addressed:
- Flamethrowers need more speed and hopefully less pop and resource cost.
- Mandarin duck squad costs 500f, sends 8 chu ko nu + 1 flamethrower while Swedes can send 2 leather canon for only 150f… what?
- Sumptuary laws card desperately needs a buff to become viable. This could open many opportunities for all Asian civs. Not only does it provide a very few amount of resources but it is also weakercompared to other trickles because the income is spread through all resources; so there should be some kind of counter-balance. Right now even getting a trickle treasure is better than this card.
- White Pagoda is a terrible Age II wonder (or in supremacy) and disciples underperform in comparison to other units with a similar role, even after hugely investing on their upgrades. Even giving them a anticav multiplier once you get White Pagoda could help. More ideas and analysis on this What's the Worst early game unit? (and how to fix them)
- China is by far the slowest civ to Age up to Age II. @AussieDrongoBBQ proposed giving them 50f initial crate and I think that’s a good proposal.
- Chinese upgrade cards are too specialized and do not affect mercenary units, outlaws, natives, etc at all (except for western reforms in Age IV with 8%). This is not the case with many other civs. Asian civs still can’t access Imperial Age mercenaries if they choose to either.
- Why can only Japan out of the Asian civs have an option to sacrifice part of their standard economy to get a viable-playable amount of export if they choose to send a card? Here are some proposals and analysis Seeing how Influence works, should Export have viable means that makes it a reliable resource income if you invest on it?
- China is the only civ in the game without viable means of obtaining alternative XP income without TP, and I prefer not to count Porcelain tower and Sumptuary Laws since it’s pretty much like 10x less than what any other civ can get.
- Summer Palace can’t produce all banner armies.
Yes,I agree with you more!
I agree ,
China is weak
Example , for pro player.
African Championship of AOE3! - Mitoe vs Ezad - QF Bo5 !casters !rules !socials
Lukas_L99 , n0eL ,
I know , how to play china,
I say Developer(Balance patch)
China is weak age up 2 very slow
lose vs cavalry musk and rush.
example for pro player .
at more tournament pro player play china lose 60-75,80%