Civilization Idea: the Jurchens

The Jurchens would be a civ in Northern East Asia and covers the historical Jurchens and the Jin empire as well as their predecessors such as Sushen, Yilou, Mohe, and Bohai / Balhae.

Contrary to most people, I would make the Jurchens a siege civ instead of a cavalry or cavalry archer civ. Historically speaking the Jurchens were not nomadic like the Khitans or Mongols but they were instead hunter-gathering with some farming, and both the Chinese as well as the Japanese were impressed by their heavy infantry and infantry formations. They were also masters of siege, conquered the entirety of North China and defeated two great empires (Khitan Liao and Chinese Northern Song) in the span of a decade. And they also made use of gunpowder weapons after they obtained this new technology from the Chinese. They even improved upon them, credited with inventing the first iron-cased bombs (the Chinese had bombs and grenades as well but they were paper, leather, clay, or ceramic-cased) and also used fire lances in a field battle against the Mongols to great effect (again the Chinese had fire lances too but they mostly put them on walls and used for defensive purposes).

Jurchens - Siege Civ

Civ Bonuses:

  • Hunters don’t require drop-off sites and generate a small trickle of gold in addition to food (historically the main export commodities of the Jurchens were wool and pelts)

  • Villagers use bow and arrow to attack enemy units (though still use knife to attack enemy buildings)

  • Cavalry can be garrisoned into rams and siege towers

Team Bonus:

  • Siege towers have the ability to attack when garrisoned just like they once did in Forgotten

Unique Techs:

  • Tiefutu (Castle Age UT): cavalry units deal a small blast damage to adjacent units when dying

  • Mengan Mouke (Imperial Age UT): all of the gold cost of siege units and their upgrades is transformed into equivalent food cost

Unique Unit:

  • Thunderclap Grenadier: a siege infantry that throws explosives at the enemy, has bonus attack against defensive buildings and siege units

Thunderclap Grenadier Stats:

  • HP: 50

  • Cost: 60 Food 25 Gold (85 Food after researching the Imperial Age UT)

  • Attack: 20 melee

  • Attack Bonuses: +100 / +120 (elite) vs Wall and Gate, +70 / +90 (elite) vs Building, +50 / +70 (elite) vs Castle, +40 / +50 (elite) vs Siege Weapon

  • Blast Radius: 0.5 (tapering effect)

  • Range: 5

  • Min Range: 1

  • Rate of Fire: 6

  • Accuracy: 70%

  • Projectile Speed: 6

  • Melee Armor: 1

  • Pierce Armor: 1

  • Armor Classes: Infantry, UU, Siege Weapon, Gunpowder Unit

  • Speed: 0.9

  • LOS: 5

Tech Tree

  • Barracks: missing Gambeson and the Eagle line

  • Dock: missing Elite Cannon Galleon, Fast Fire Ship, and Shipwright

  • Archery Range: only missing Hand Cannoneers and the Elephant Archer line

  • Stable: their stable would be the strongest among East & SE Asian civs and perhaps one of the strongest in the game, having access to Paladin, Hussar, and Camel Rider (though missing Heavy Camel Rider) and is only missing the Battle Elephant line

  • Siege Workshop: only missing the Armored Elephant line

  • Monastery: missing Heresy, Redemption, and Atonement

  • University: missing Arrowslits, Heated Shot, and Treadmill Crane

  • Castle: missing Hoardings

  • Blacksmith: full

  • Mining Camp: missing Gold Shaft Mining


I have seen people complain not having a dropoff will lead to people using it lame other players boars deer.
Bow attack for villagers seems really odd and fits best with an archer civi.
It will look visually odd horses going in to siege weapons.

Wont this be busted in certain situations?they have all the siege units.


Ultimate laming civ that will create a bigger nightmare than Goths 35% cheaper militia in Dark Age.


Maybe im missing something. If you send your villagers into your enemy’s base to steal deer you have a few problems. First your economy suffers as you head into your enemy’s base. Second at high elo players arent dumb. They will expect you to come eat their deer because lets face it killing their deer and letting it rot can actually be a powerful tool as is.

how early do you think one can feasibly send 5 or so villagers half way across a map not gathering and with no intention to push or tower and only eat deer? If you’re going to do so in Feudal the enemy will have archers and towers to keep you unable to gather Or dying.

That said ttwo of their bonuses revolve around hunting so that feels a little dull and their other bonus is… garrison cav in rams which nobody is really gonna do much. They probably need a military bonus that better defines them and one of the hunting bonuses changed because you are putting 2 such bonuses on a civ.

Oh and no gold siege you’re out of your damn mind!! I guess it’s definitely a power spike after spending so many ages relying on hunt eco which isn’t bad if Mongols are anything to go by but what happens when thry age up? What promises and advantages do they get over their enemy when they get there?

Ignoring laming and villager fight balance (which I think may be fixed if you just give them pierce damage idk), this civ seems a bit weak. They only have the hunting bonus early game and have no castle age powerspike and even imp seems meh

1 Like

Thanks for ur comment.

I don’t think their late game would be weak. Siege and cavalry would be the main composition of their late game army and they are quite strong in terms of both.

maybe vills fight with bow and arrow starting in feudal? seems like it could be an overwhelming advantage in nomad/bf if you end up in a villager fight and the other guy has a range advantage.

Late game isnt weak but theres no powerspike

If they also have the bonus where vills can attack with a bow then they can be sent early and cause dmg vill fighting.

Plus even if it’s not op on Arabia there definitely will be maps where they break the balance.

I did mention that only of the hunting bonus should remain to be fair. Both together can be quite dangerous. But just one is manageable maybe the boar hunt more so. Again if you’re in range of his town you’re in range of his army.

I missed your comment saying that, my bad.

Out of curiosity, did you take this idea from my Khazars concept? It’s okay if you did, but it seems like an oddly specific bonus for two people to come up with independently.

Nope, that’s a false accusation. I’ve never paid too much attention to any of your concepts cause you and I clearly have different interests. I don’t even remember that you posted a Khazars concept. I came up with this idea all by myself.

It’s not any accusation. I was just wondering. You can get inspiration from people’s ideas or not. It doesn’t matter.

Even if I got inspiration from somewhere else it’s not from yours you can rest assured. We don’t share the same interests at all I mainly focus on potential civs in East & Southeast Asia. I don’t even read your posts most of the times LOL.

1 Like

They seemed to be good at infantries and cavalries with heavy armours and high-lever battle skill in history, tie-futu(iron pogoda) referred to the shape of the armour , guaizi-ma(corner horse) referred to the position of the rider…

Well, Jurchens are actually good at siege combat, either.

You know one thing Jurchens were also good for? Piracy. Little known fact: they were (iirc) the only mainland force able to successfully raid the Japanese islands.

You could also add in a civ bonus getting a cut of the gold sunk from trade cogs if you’re feeling adventurous… Or not. That bonus could go elsewhere too. Just a thought.

@Zaphiron01 What did the Japanese called these pirates?

I’m not exactly sure, as the only big reference to them I found was a Korean word, the Toi Pirates. They actually invaded northern Kyushu in 1019, it’s called the Toi Invasion.

Honestly, the more I look into it, I think they may have just been known as the Toi. At the time, they were living in the modern Pyongyang (North Korea) area, and it probably got carried over by the Koreans to the Japanese. But yeah, absolute units in pirating, to the point they were launching week-long invasions into the Japanese archipelago. I feel like they should have a stronger fleet/ naval bonus to reflect their piratical prowess.