"Clone" Civs - How to add a LOT more Civs, make people happy, and MAKE SOME $$$

You’re right, I deployed a couple of mistaken words. I’ve edited the post to reflect my real nuanced thoughts. Thank you.

I’m an AoE2 player. I got it the moment it was released and played it exclusively for years. I adore that game. But in 2003 when AoM improved the civ design recipe, I switched and never returned.


You might be interested in the Rome at War mod for AoE2 DE.

I completely prefer the AoE4 style too.

The biggest problem with it is that it becomes unsustainable after a certain point, which I think will probably be around 12 civs. Sustainable in terms of the devs managing balance. Sustainable in terms of players keeping track of all the matchups. And sustainable in not scaring new players for having to learn X-teen completely different civs.

I find the general lack of variety in AoE2 too boring for me, and I also don’t like the reskinned aspect. But I also see the subtle differences still make for strategic differences and variability in games. And that’s why I think it would be a good method as optional DLC.

Two civs a year seems like plenty to me.


I think you underestimate how much time is spent on art and sound and other non-gameplay related work. For example take a look at my civ concept for Hungary

I spent hours and hours on this. This time was mostly spent on reading and research to try and get a historical basis around which I could develop a cohesive civ identity, including landmarks. And I didn’t even research things like the languages and architecture in different ages. So if I were to see Hungary released as a bastardized version of the French (imagine having Magyars without Horse Archers), it would basically be like a huge slap in the face.

I can understand your point to some degree, however. My concept of Hungary basically used Pit mines almost identically to how they are used with Mali. So I would be ok with these two civs having a similar bonus. Just like Rus and China both have faster firing bombards. But pretty much everything else about Mali would be completely inapplicable to Hungary. So the concept of ‘clone civs’ as you describe them would not really speed anything up and would alienate more people by presenting a poor identity of the civs.


Yes! It’s really cool to see all that hard work and quality. Their civs are great, but not nearly as deep as the corresponding civ design in AoEO. Have you seen this?

Age of Empires Online: The Romans Overview Trailer - YouTube

Then simply give them Horse Archers at the cost of removing another unique unit (e.g. arbaletrier). You can have those things and still pay a lot of respect to the Hungarian identity. And don’t forget, you can also change the landmarks as I mentioned.

I think it’s a bigger slap in the face to have them excluded from ever seeing the light of day. And as much as I appreciate the work you and other people have in putting up civ concepts (I’ve also done the same), I don’t think the devs would give two sh*ts about not meeting a drawn-up ideal, just like I’m sure the Ottomans don’t match what people have drawn up for them in the past. They would sell, and they’d make money. And people will continue to play the game.

We’re constrained to the AoE2 technical limitations. If I’m being honest, not too much a fan of the AoEO artstyle either.

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You are not alone there. I enjoy it but I’m easy to please.

Final say I’m gonna have on this topic for now. Imagine this very probable scenario.

It’s October 2024. In October 23, we got Ottomans and Malians. In October 24, we got the XXXians and YYYese. There are now 12 civs in the game. Further development is difficult because Relic already left a skeleton crew and is focusing on its CoH3 expansions, leaving Forgotten Empires in charge of publishing updates.

In retrospect, around 2022, AoE2:DE has already been getting a few new DLC packs. But civs are much less unique in that game, and there is substantially less work since it’s a less graphically intensive game. AoE3:DE has also been doing the same. Similar story, but each new civ in AoE4 is still considerably more work in comparison.

You’re Forgotten Empires now, and your job is to maintain the game. Do what the predecessors do and pump out 2 civs with a much reduced staff? Also, on the player base, do the players even have the stomach for exponentially increasing complexity?

Or perhaps, maybe you can inspiration from this post written in September 2022 and work with rehashing existing civs to keep familiarity, not exponentially increase complexity, but continue the game’s momentum and sales?

Step back and think on that for a bit.

This is some huge speculation. There’s no sign at all that Relic won’t continue working on the game. They’ll do so as long as they’re paid to do so by Microsoft.

Forgotten Empires has been working with them from the beginning by the way.


If FE can bang out unique aoe3 civs at a decent clip, they can bang out aoe4 civs I’d reckon.

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As long as it doesn’t interfere with what they are doing with AoE3DE. Selfishly as an AoE3 diehard, I want to ride this wave for as long as possible. The amount of content and the quality of it FE/Tantalus added to this game has been a dream come true. AoE3 deserves it and us players are highly appreciative.


I hear that. I wouldn’t change the current state of AoEO development either. All around, the franchise is in great shape.

Tell that to AoE1. <20 characters>

I think most people feel like AoE1 was just straight up superseded by AoE2. The other games differ enough that they have their niches.


That’s exactly how it felt to me in 1999. As soon as aoe2 was installed and those civs had unique units, aoe1 was basically an outdated memory. Same thing happened in 2002, 2005, and 2011, for that matter. Ensemble kept improving the civ design recipe.


As someone who has been spamming Civ concept.

It’s actually supringly “easy” to come up with new unique civ concepts by just taking inspiration from history.
Alter them around and tweak it into game mechanics and boom.
You got a new assymetric civilization.

For my civ concepts it takes me about a 1 week of research, thinking and planning.

Yes there will be similarities, those are not to be avoided.
Yes you can “copy a template” and use that template to build a new civ design ontop.
An example of this is being French and English.

Although both are clearly based on the same “template” they are still quite assymetric to each other.

Also the game havent been out for a year and were already seeing 2 new civs.
This also in consideration that relic is also working on CoH3 thats really close to release.

I think they have a good plan and we might see new civ added quite frequently in pairs.
AoE4 has brought in a huge success and its sales numbers are almost record breaking for the RTS genre.

I dont see why they wouldnt put even more resources into designing new content to the game.

Especially when CoH3 has been released and the project department are new free to be dispursed into different new projects.

In this section of the forum there are few players who come from AoE2 (those from AoE2 are in the AoE2 section or in AoEzone), most are from AoE3, AoM, AoEO, etc. It is for this reason that they do not like your ideas.

Then it is intended that 2 civilizations go on sale every 6 months.