Arent most of them too expensive for the previous ages?
Not a fan but sure
Decent bonus, could probably be even better (maybe +1 vs archers each age?)
Seems decent but why not +1/2 attack instead to make it less like Celts?
No problem with either of them but six bonuses seems way too excesive
Seems like a duller Cata Its not bad or anything but would be nice if it was a bit more unique than that
Would prefer +1/1 since +2/1 overlaps a bit too much with Teutons, and +1/1 still is a better Pavise so idk you probably could do something better. Maybe +1/1 and +1 attack for infantry?
I hate this because it forces you to micro manage the resources. It should at the very least make resources not disappear, but it still feels very un-AoE2. I would replace it entirely, but at the very very least make it prevent resources from disapearIng (even if villagers cant gather them anymore) or make them deplete resources
Also they already have their infantry to generate resources so seems a bit unnecessary
It can possibly be an interesting idea to make more infantry (+skirms) and stay longer in the respective ages, trying to make more damage with units that are designed for higher ages. Don’t know if it works out like that, but’s the idea to give these romans the identity of trying to stay longer in the ages, with the better counters they have at leas a chance to compete with the power unit powerspikes.
I did somthing similar in the last design. This I chose to give a one-time bonus because of the idea I shared above. Could also just be converted to "skirms deal +2 (-3) bonus damage against archers).
I wanted to give the HP bonus to see if these Ballistas possibly can hold a bit better against mangonels and Knights, the currently strongest counters to Scorpions. Ofc extra attack is a suitable alternative to the faster firing. I prefered the faster firing as this doesn’t decrease the “critical mass”. Together with the HP increase scorpions might become oppressive with higher attack as you’d need less of them to 1-shot certain units.
I prefer the extra melee armor. The civ is very dependant on their infantry units holding the line. Yes it’s similar to teutons. But Teutons have their TK which doubles up on this even. My roman design doesn’t have an infantry UU to add in against other strong melee units.
I don’t understand what you mean. Ofc Villagers will still deplete the ressources, only the castle effect (which should be a very, very slow trickle on most commonly playeds maps cause yeah… there are maps with lots of res and it needs to still be balanced on these maps).
Maybe it can be made so it still depletes the res yes… But it was intended to give the romans a little bit more gold in standard games to #### ##### ### i wouldn’t mind too much if it would still deplete the ressources. It then only shouldn’t completely take them off the map, cause otherwise wo could have effects of a castle making overchops or clearing entire areas of BF or so… even if it takes an hour, that would be weird.
I dont think it will work that way. I think there will be one time when it may be sometimes viable, and that is when you are using a lot of spears, but even then I dont think it is enough as you lack good siege to push them back, it only allows you to defend better and raid a little bit. Against archer civs you will want to get better siege and skirms to deal with them. THS without the support of other imperial age units is also quite meh.
But why would you double down in being like Teutons when +1 attack is arguably just as valuable when dealing with Paladins for example. Also Teutonic Knights are meh, they arent an argument for Teutons, your Centurion is also ant infantry too. Also it still overlaps too much with Pavise too.
That considering the trickle of resources will be weak the best way to use this bonus is to almost deplete resources.
Otherwise you will be behind in resources for a while.
They dont need extra gold, they already have their infantry for that.
And honestly I dont think it matters much if it depletes an area since you can just do it quicker with siege.
In general I think you are doing weird stuff for weird reasons tbh
I just think it is too much like Celts since they also get extra hp too. At least with extra attack it would overlap with a UT from a diferent civ at least
I don’t think this civ design is really weird.
Only the Imp UT is kinda uncommon and unprecedented.
I tried to make a civ designed around having the barracks units upgrades on age earlier. And I think I found a way to do that. It’s not an easy task, for sure.
Because for this civ it’s more important the infantry can hold the line against other melee units. They have very bad Cavalry (even with the Centurion, which will still die to halbs, it’s mostly a counter to other civs superior champs or infantry UUs).
So I thint the +2 armor is better suited than the attack.
Also it gives +1 pierce armor which Teutons don’t get. So it’s not the same.
Also it applies to all foot units.
Fourth attempt. I’ll take some bonuses from previous three.
Team Bonus
Scorpion -1 minimum range.
Civ Bonus
TC technologies are 60% cheaper.
Barracks and Siege Workshop cost -75 wood.
Militia line +10 HP per age.
Siege Workshop units moves +20%.
Unique Technologies
Scorpion and mangonel can hit moving target (350f/250g, 40 sec)
Siege Workshop units regenerate 15 HP/min. (650f/500g, 50 sec)
Unique Units
Legion - Infantry with high attack and PA but low HP
Cost : 35f/45g
HP : 50, 60
Attack : 14, 17
Attack Bonus : vs Eagle +2,+3 vs building +3,+4
ROF : 2.0
Armor : 0/3, 0/4
Speed : 1.1
LOS : 5
Upgrade cost : 800f/750g, 45 sec
Whilst I am not a fan of a civ that’s almost entirely design around the Milita line (We already have goths for that and they do the role of “antagonist to the fun play” already very well.
That design could somehow work with maybe just a few tweaks,
First it still has no real “eco bonus”. Also the HP increase of the milita line isn’t enough to make that line a viable choice in the midgame imo. It still lacks the core feature, which is dealing damage to the enemy eco with very few investment.
The Legion is a very good raiding unit. But I think the Gold ratio is a bit low and should be increased.
So teh Leguin could take over from the militias in the midgame. Still it would need a completely new style of playing, as the civ with almost no eco bonus would need to get to a castle first, which is alot of investment and delays the production quite a lot also. Imo the Legion should have a cost of like 45 F / 45 G or so. Would make it even easier in the midgame.
In the lategame you’ld potentially pivot to mostly 100 HP Champs anyways.
BTW is it intentional they have < FU Halbs? That means all of their trash options are below average. Meaning it will be very hard to play “standard” with them. Once they have run out of gold they’re toast. Ofc your Infantry heavy design would safe a lot of gold, but what if you can’t get away with just infantry and you need to make knights or archers? Then it will look very grim at some point. Besides it will already be tough in the midgame as you won’t have any bonus that you could apply to the “standard” plays.
I would potentially give small bonusses to their halbs and skirms. Would be historically “accurate” as the Romans were famous for their phalanx and skirmish battle tactics. And would solve that issue with the “standard” play easily: You make archers/knights. you add the counter units to the opponents power units. You make more counter units than usual as they are good, You transition into your strong infantry + siege as you saved gold in the midgame.
Cheaper Barracks and Siege Workshops are nice, but again not the biggest of all bonusses out there.
Ballistics for Siege is indeed nice, something we don’t have in the game. Needs to be figured out if it’s maybe OP when other civs don’t have access to it. It’s a huge advantage in a mangonel fight. Clearly something you can be excited about when playing with this civ.
Siege regenerating HP is again quite useless, unless it’s values like 50 HP per minute or so. 15 HP per minute… that’s really nothing for Siege units which are very fragile and expensive. I’d still just bring my vills along to repair the Siege which is orders of magnited faster than that little passive regen.
Neither Goths nor my Romans designed around Militia line entirely. Goths is designed entirely on “Infantry” and this one on “Infantry + Siege”.
Cheaper TC techs is REAL eco bonus. May not be strong but it is indeed real. Also I mistakenly written 50%. It will be 60% as I realized 50% is too small for TC techs from my attempt 3.
80 HP LS with cheaper Barracks. This will have a place in the game together with some siege behind.
That’s really expensive.
No. It is just a byproduct of 100 HP Champion. I’ll add BF. And reduce Elite Legion attack by 1.
From the very first attempt, I’m saying my inspiration is Celts. So no easy way to play “Standard”.
I’m dying to see “Spearman and Skirms +20% HP” as a civ bonus for any civ. Suggested this long before.
Maybe I’m too picky. But imo it’s a really strong unit that should have kinda high gold ratio.
BTW imo huskarls also have a too low gold ratio for what they provide.
Gold ratios are notoriously difficult to pick. Too low gold ratios can turn certain units into abnoxious monsters (like wiht mentioned Huskarls, Chakrams and Shrivamshas). Whilst too high Gold ratios can turn units into “snowball” units that fall of very heavily when you don’t achieve the eco damage you want to. Like with eagles.
It’s tough to get in the right range, but imo your Legion unit should have a higher Gold ratio for what it provides to your civ. But that’s just my personal opinion.
It is a general multi purpose unit that doesn’t have any big attack bonus vs anything. They are similar to WR and Berserk (Berserk is a bit different with regeneration and UT though) in that case. So I thought they could share the cost as well.
But after your reply, I realized this unit is more similar to Ghulam than others. Maybe even stronger as attack bonus vs archer has been added to base stat. Slightly slower speed and no thrusting ability is not enough to keep it at 25g. So I’m changing the cost to 35f/45g.
Since April PUP has added some new mechanics, here is another attempt -
Infantry & Defensive Civilization
Team Bonus
Towers & Outposts provide +5 pop space.
Civilization Bonus
Age advancing don’t cost gold.
Spearman & Skirmisher +20% HP.
Infantry attack bonus vs Eagle applies against spearman & skirmisher.
Militia line and siege units take 1 less damage from mounted units.
Heavy Scorpion upgrade doesn’t cost wood and available in Castle Age.
Unique Technologies
Militia line +30HP (350f/250g, 45 sec)
Scorpion and mangonel can hit moving target (450f/300g, 40 sec)
Unique Units
Legion - Infantry with high attack and PA but low HP
Cost : 35f/45g
HP : 50, 60
Attack : 14, 17
Attack Bonus : vs Eagle +2,+3 vs building +3,+4
ROF : 2.0
Armor : 0/3, 0/4
Speed : 1.1
LOS : 5
Upgrade cost : 800f/750g, 45 sec
Dromon - Warship with high range
Cost : 80w/40g
HP : 125, 150
Attack : 7, 8
Attack Bonus : vs ship/fishing ship +9, +11, vs building +7, +8, vs ram +2
Range : 7, 8
ROF : 3.0
Armor : 0/6, 0/8
Speed : 1.43
LOS : 9, 10
Upgrade cost : 700f/500g, 60 sec
Not as fast as Byzantines maybe. Food is harder to get. Also you can’t say it is OP until you check out their Imperial Age options. Anyway just added UTs and Tech Tree.
Let’s try to be historical : the late roman empire still had infantry at its core, supported with cavalry and scorpions, but also relied on germanic mercenaries. When you’re facing several germanic group, sometimes the best is to throw gold at one of them to fight the others.
It also was an empire in decline so I don’t think it should get top-tier units.
Romans : infantry and defensive civilisation.
UU :
legionary (castle) : rework it from its current version, giving it a ranged charge attack, throwing a plumbata before attacking in melee. This charge attack is armour-piercing
field scorpion (siege workshop) : replaces the scorpion, looks like a roman scorpion instead of a ballista. Cheaper, fires armour-piercing bolts, but a more limited overperforation than the scorpion (enough to impale 2-3 infantry in tight formation). Intended as a replacement for both the crossbow line and the scorpion, it provides general firepower behind the meat shield that is your infantry.
UT :
mercenary auxilliae : unlocks the auxillia barracks building
auxillia barracks : allow the recruitment of other players’ unique units, plus their elite upgrade.
(For example you can recruit huscarls if another player plays Goths, throwing axemen for Franks…)
Bonuses :
buildings get +1/1 armour per age, up to +4/4 in imperial age.
infantry counts for -10% population in castle age, -20% in imperial age.
knight line +10% speed
lumberjacks provide a little bit of stone
Team bonus :
knight line +5 damage vs siege
Significant missing techs and units :
crossbowman & arbalester
hand cannoneer
paladin
camel line
scorpion & heavy scorpion (replaced by field scorpions)
bombard cannon
bombard tower
siege engineers
infantry 3rd armour
cavalry 3rd armour
The stone and building armour bonuses will allow solid defences, so long that the enemy does not bring siege weapons, and building fortifications everywhere such as a wall the entire width of Scotland. You’ll need that, as your empire is in decline, and being before the age of plate armour, gunpowder and even crossbows that can do more than hunting small game, you will lack most shiny imperial age units.
This means the core of your army will be infantry, including your elite legionaries, supported by field scorpions and lighter, but faster, knights (mainly to counter enemy sieges and archers as they lack the brute force to beat heavy cavalry). Trash units remain decent when gold is scarce, though nowhere near top-tier. The boldest generals might be tempted by the option of hiring mercenaries to fight fire with fire.
Reading this I think Romans could have a very specific UU from their Castles.
Whilst the Militia line could just get a “reskin” to the Legionaries (and associated bonssuses).
The UU would be a cavalry unit I now call “Equites”. But that’s actually not the correct term, but I couldn’t find it yet. It’s a representation of the Cavarly Romans used to protect their outer borders like on Hadrians Wall or Limes. Best describable as an Anti-Raid Cavalry.
As such the Equites would have low Pierce Armor and also comparably low attack, but big bonus damage against cavalry and also some against Infantry (some civs have good infnatry raiding options). As it’s specialised anti-raid unit it could be comparably cheap on the Gold side.
It would have some overlaps with the Camels, but if designed well there would be enough destinction between the lines for a notable difference.The Equites could have way less HP which would make them even worse against archer type units. And the Equites could be as fast as light cavalry or even Shrivamshas to be better able to chase down enemy cavalry. On the other hand Camels would easily win against the Equites.
I think this could be a nice addition to a civ that isotherwise quite “immobile” with a heavy focus on Infantry.
Man-At-Arms and Longswordsman have a dodge charge ability like Shivamsha rider.
Can build unique building Aquaduct which distributes food resources equally between you and your teammates that you have connected through aquaducts between starting towncenter.
All buildings and fortifications have 100% more hitpoints and are 20% more expensive: 25% hp per age and 5% more cost per age.
Can build monastry and train monks in the feudal age (but monks can only pickup relics and convert units starting in castle age, they can convert buildings starting in feudal age)
TB
Trade units move 10% faster
UU
Polybolos: A packable scorpio unit with rapid fire. Bonus damage against infantry. Has a lot of hitpoints and armor but is very expensive. Weak to other siege units.
UTs
Greek Phalanx and Hastati: Pikemen gain +2 melee armor and Skirmishers gain + 2 melee and pierce armor
Archmides' Steam Cannon: allows the training of bombard cannon, but cannon firerate is a lot slower, has more hitpoints and has to pack/unpack
Tech Tree
Blacksmith: All melee Attack upgrades, all ranged Attack upgrades, only first two armor upgrades.
Barracks: All techs, no two-handed swordsman, no champion, no halbedier.
Archery range: Archer line up to Xbow, Elite Skirm, Thumb Ring, Cav Archers (no hca), no Ele Archers.
Stable: Bloodlines, Husbandry, SL and ESL, no Hussars, no knight, no Eles
Siege Workshop: Everything
Castle: No trebuchet.
Monastery: No ferver, no block printing, no Theocracy.
Dock: No heavy demolition ship, no galleon, no bombard cannon galleon.
University: Everything but Bombard Tower
Market: Everything but Banking and Guilds.
Economy Techs: All but Crop Rotation
This is very underwhelming and probably unnecessary
This is probably too expensive still. But pretty good
This is pretty good but youwont go out of your way to get the tech and you would be smarter to just make the UU.
This is an small improvement for scorps but ridiculous for mangonels
This is more interesting than your previous ideas and sorta synargizes with the normal infantry in theory, but most probably would be used alone. They arent quite low hp though, and seem just like a better Shotel
Overall the civ seems like it will be mediocre to bad in open maps if the UU doesnt overperform. The tanky trash is okay but not enough I believe. In closed maps they will probably be pretty good.
