Tbh I never see them come on top in any statistics, whether it be tournaments, ranked games, etc. Usually in a decent place but never the most glaring one.
2 Likes
Okay then, I guess just presenting the raw stats is wrong.
Heavy infantry and light cavalry are going to have multipliers like that. I already said Shotels are the better choice against heavy infantry. Light cavalry is basically offset by the extra ranged resistance and higher attack of Oromos, and the fact that Shotels will die a bit sooner so their average damage output is a bit less. Maybe Shotels would be better against really good melee light cavalry (like Javelin Riders), but thatâs not really the situation you want to build cavalry in anyways.
It basically comes down to Shotels being better against their counters, and Oromos being better against everything else.
Shock infantry also has great pathing so they can get into places easily which cavalry canât.
You can also max the full stats and make an equal fight as resources to see how efficient shotel warriors trade
Oromos vs Shotels with equal resources is going to be an Oromo win. Their charged ranged attack is going to wipe out the difference in health right off the start and then their attack is higher to begin and will continue for longer.
i think shotel are a lil overestimate, not saying theyr bad i actually think they are very good, but ofc against skirm goon they gonna perform well and its not a couple of cav that will stop them
Now i wonder what happen if someone decide to make halb instead to goons, a comp like halb huss skirm, not sure if shotel can perform well against that
Halb, Huss and skirms could be a good combination against them. Halbs can take out shotel, skirms javelin riders and Huss their skirms. The problem is that still doesnât solve the issues of them being able to build twice as many dragoons as everyone else.
Unless something changed dragoons are also good against shotels
The plain old cannon + muskets deal with that.
Actually it doesnât. And I am a cannon and musk builder
We have one of the most concerning balance patch ever arrived to Aoe3, Italy and India are very strong, Malta is still a balance concern, Otto and ethiopia too. Brit is very weak right now. hopefully things will get better in the next patch.
Breeze, you are weird one. I know you are the current 1° player on the ladder, but sometimes you sound like you are 1200 elo or something. You are quite inconsistent.
Brits has not changed much to be honest. Just changed 3 villĂȘigers for 2 infinite villĂȘigers and play normally. Donât think Brits are âvery weakâ. Itâs just going to continue to be the same old: Do houses, do musks and maybe some huss, z move and win. If opponent gets to age 3, longbow still kills skirms.
By far the easiest civ to learn and play on the game, and the most rewarding.
Ethiopia likely received a nerf on his eco by reducing the amount of abuns one can build on age 2. A nerf that I donât know if 4 villĂȘigers compensates for, really. On the rest of the changes, I actually liked the nerfing shotels and buffing oromos. Was a good change for a change.
Also, what changed to make India particularly strong? They nerfed karni mata gathering rate and sepoys melee and gave a buff on rajputs which is a unit that no one ever uses to âcompensateâ. Are you still losing caçadores to pike out there? Thatâs why you are concerned with rajputs buff?
This balance patch is not even on the top 10 of most concerning balance patches on DE. xD
6 Likes
I agree with this statement. If Italia, India, Ottomans, and Ethiopia are too strong⊠Well that makes 4 civs out of 22 already. Two of which not being DLC civs.
It is still way better than having a single lame civ run over the ladder.
The devs could nerf any 5 civs to the ground / graveyard, and the balance wouldnt be horrible as long as other civs are balanced.
Even though we (should) all hope for a world where every civ is average on all game settings.
from the discussion on ESOC, basically its that Italy is top and the only civ that has a decent matchup against italy atm is India since china cav was nerfed.
and while skrims are nerfed across the board against cav, meaning ideally italy should be down as well, their skirm was buffed against cav so their strength is up overall
Brit is a bit slower to complete the boom but if you go with the age 1 tp card youâll now get faster age ups. Late game they got a buff as well because rangers are useable now.
Malta needed buffs, it got several nerfs and nothing but a 5 sentinel card to compensate, once more data becomes available weâll see their win rate drop.
The change to indias wonder was sufficient nerf, now theyâre not too op.
Portugal buff to feitorias was a waste of time because they removed the 5% extra food gather rate their vills had so I doubt weâll see ports win rate improve.
Otto changes were good, they improved the azap and abus gun got several nerfs exactly what was needed.
Ethiopia got some good changes, nerfed a bit late game with abun cards but compensated with 4 villagers earlier on. Mortar is now useable after so long being trash, shotel finally have an upgrade card and they nerfed their base hp to compensate for that so itâs not too much. Oromo are now a balanced unit as well.
Up until this patch according to sunbros data italy had a terrible win rate, in my opinion they performed poorly in commerce and fortress age. The only thing they do well is a FI, a couple of slow trickling lombard cards extra will have no effect on this, theyâre not needed for the FI and if anything will help italy do a lombard build earlier on.
The issue I see repeatedly with pro players and esoc is them struggling vs a certain civ or finding it lame and immediately calling it OP, weâve already suffered the consequences of this with inca and I donât want this trend to continue. Whilst I respect the opinions of people like revnak, I find it hard to understand how italy and malta are apparently so broken yet across all levels they maintained below average win rates, italy especially had a much lower win rate than malta.
4 Likes
Please consider Aztec too, not only British, thanks.
British still can be playable in team game. Aztec is completely trash now.
1 Like
I mean its not that hard to understand why, cause people at different levels play differently.
In age2 there is a similar thing - China is considered to be bad or mid in all but the very top level, where its like top5 and by top its like only at 2000 elo above, cause it has a weird start and mechanics that are mostly only abuseable if you know what you are doing and execute builds well.
Italy has a very weird start, has a very strong FI that for the most part has just been buffed, can boom well and defend well, all traits that would suit it will for cleanly executed defenses and builds
4 Likes
Brits are totally useless now. Thereâs literally no reason to play brits in pvp.
1 Like
Italy FI is broken. You can train 3-5 architects and do 3-5 towers for free in age 2, that, and the huge amounts of buildings in a Italian base (Lombards and Basilica) is more than enough to buy time for you to be at age 4 at like 10 minutes. Is pretty much impossible to punish the FI with this much free towers and buildings in base.
I agree that top players can be just as biased as any other human. But when you have an almost unanimous opinion from top players that something is broken, is very likely really broken. That happens with Italy FI now. Even Breeze admits that is broken soâŠ
Also, what happened to Inca was that a broken civ got nerfed. Donât think is a consequence we need to be particularly afraid of.
4 Likes
If having the best early game eco, a skirmishers-killer unique unit as soon as age 2, an army composition that barely requires any micro apart from accelerating longbows animations is âuselessâ, I donât want to see what a âbalancedâ civ is. xD
1 Like
The FI is completely beatable, might be harder for some civs than others but theyâre investing like 700 gold in architects and stopping villager production as soon as they hit age 2.
Inca is not a case of an OP civ getting nerfed at all, itâs a case of a civ being singled out by the vocal minority of legacy esoc players. Thereâs even a post on here from kaiserklein complaining about them and as soon as he lost a tournament to kynesies inca the next patch they got nerfed into the ground, literally unplayable. Theyâve been getting overnerfed constantly, I could list over 20 nerfs theyâve received just off the top of my head. Inca have a low win rate yet this patch still received nerfs to chincha rafts all while giving euro civs a new battleship card.
Yes that is fair enough but you canât balance a civ based on the 15 players that are above 1900 elo lol overall win rate should be what matters when deciding on a buff or a nerf.
5 Likes
architect is like 3 vills man, so ye you invested 700 gold for 12 vills ( 4 architect )
2 Likes