Conquistadors they are simple to powerful in castle age they have 16, 2/2 and require very few upgrades. They can’t be countered by skirmisher since they have 2 base pierce armor and deal 10 damage, against siege, they deal 9 damage compared to a cav archers 1 damage, Despite being slower than the cav archer they are incredibly effective at hit and run because they have an attack delay of .42 compared to the cav archers .9 as well as insane burst. I purpose decreasing their attack by 2 (14) and armor to 1/1 But keep the elite Conquistadors unchanged. But also give them crossbow and remove thumb ring.
So you want to turn Conqs into another post-imp fantasy play unit, just like Elephant Archer.
Conqs are perfectly balanced, you have to adapt a wholistic point of view, stop being methodical.
Spanish are defined by their Unique Unit, that’s their go-to, full of risks, hard to achieve, yet very rewarding.
As long as Spanish are an overall mediocre civ, it’s totally balanced and that’s the beauty about this game.
4 Likes
So you want to nerf their only “viable” strat (which doesnt save Spanish from sucking) and making Conqs a pointless unit? Elite Conqs are pretty much useless as well
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And how do you counter this perfectly balanced unit? siege is a nonstarter, skirms need a 1.5x number advantage to win, knights can be easily micro’d down, pikemen are a joke, crossbow and cav archers have to deal with the 4 pierce armor.
Skirms are trash units. It’s not hard to build a 1.5x number of them. Also, Conquistadors have a lot of their power fall off in Imp.
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I disagree on the Skirmisher point, Conquistadors get destroyed by Elite Skirmishers. Not 1v1, but with anywhere close to equal resources spent it is very cost effective for the Skirms.
That being said, I’m not entirely opposed to a Castle Age Conq nerf. There should be more difference between a normal and Elite Conq, and this is one way to achieve that. I think you’re overdoing it with the -2 attack, and -1/-1 armor. Maybe start with -1 attack and see how that goes?
I also think that any nerf to the Spanish mid-game power spike needs to be accompanied by a buff to their early game, likely their economy. The challenge for Spanish is getting to their power unit, especially on open maps, since they are a slow civ to build momentum.
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You dont (directly). That’s wonderful aspect about this game, Conq is a win-condition composition for the Spanish. since its the supirior among them all in Castle Age, it’s okay to have some UU that are better than others, it’s just one aspect of the game, with that being said all civs should be equally strong/balanced.
The only two ways to “counter” Conqs is either:
Preventing it from happening (quite an easy task considering how open maps are, plus the fact Spanish have no eco bonus)
OR
Indirectly by making Monks or Skirms + a supirior economy, time is on your side, you don’t aim to defeat the Spanish composition but delaying it enough so you can win economically.
3 Likes
My problem is not that is not Spanish are overpowered it that you are always encouraged to make conqs otherwise you are at a disadvantage and would be better off playing Bulgarians
conquistadors is good but far from broken. DE even add cavalry archer armor class to them. There is no need to nerf conq as this is basically the identity of Spanish.
People that aren’t in favor of Conq Nerf and another civ bonus for Spanisch or compensation buffs haven’t even played the game. Conqs are ridiculous OP and the only thing that keeps Spanish going. But a civ shouldn’t be dependent on whether it gets to train its UU.
Nerf its strength. buff Spanish elsewhere. Unit is broken - only counter is skirms and monks, and those get crushed in TG and aren’t viable.
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Why not? Given that there are so many civs, I don’t see a big issue with the fact that a few civs are highly dependent on their UU, on the contrary. Koreans and their war wagons is a similar issue. It’s one additional angle to make a civ unique except for the usual (cavalry or archer, aggressive or boom) identity.
Yes, you could nerf the conq and give Spanish some eco bonus to buff the early game. We would obtain a civ that is a bit better in the meta play and a bit less powerful in unique situations (e.g. nomad games). Would it make the game overall better? I’m not sure.
1 Like
Imo, relying on UU is pretty unique and make diversity. We have seen enough of xbow and knight.
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You need 1,5x of a cheap trash unit to defend from a an expansive unit that needs castle and gives you bad eco? Best trade ever. Open monastery and monks (best counter to conqs), boom and transition into double range skirms. When your opponent adds siege you will have eco to produce cav or so. Also xbow works well vs conqs.
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Spanish in their current state are the “Castle Drop into UU” with “Decently Strong lategame” Civ they have absolutely nothing going for them pre-Mid Castle Age aside from the okayish Building bonus, not even Crossbows to synergise with their cheaper Fletching and Bodkin for an Early Castle powerspike, and though their lategame Tech Tree and faster firing bombards makes for a good lategame. There are civs that are similarly powerful in that regard, all whilst having a significantly stronger early game bonuses (Lithuanians, Vietnamese, etc)
Conqs aren’t excessively overpowered but how they act as the main reason to ever play the Civ and a crutch for all of their weaknesses is horrible and should be changed, the Civ desperately needs a buff to their non-Conq play.
Give spanish crossbows
Remove thumb ring
Nerf conqs even more
You have 0 clue how civ identity works and I’m glad people like you (and me) just stick to the forums because none of us know how to make the game better than the devs do, let me tell you that much.
If anything, buff elite conqs. I’d argue all gunpowder units should get 100% accuracy on their elite upgrade, otherwise they get straight up outclassed by thumb ring arb/ca. Either that, or deal 100% of damage to any unit they hit like the arambai, but it’s different because arambai shots come from above, while gunshots come from the front, therefore miss a lot more than arambai shots do when attacking clumps. So yeah, give gunpowder units 100% accuracy on elite, all the gunpowder civs are underperforming anyway- spanish, turks, portuguese.
1 Like
It’s pretty easy to punish Spanish in open maps before they get to build a castle and mass conqs.
In arena like maps you can use monks, defensive castles, open scouts or xbow to prevent castle push, e-skirms, other unique units, etc.
Conqs are OK.
2 Likes
No because conqs have the same armor as knights and it takes 25 shots
Conqs have 6 range, so in Castle Age skirms have more range. You can also go monks and mangonels. Also they train slow and are expensive. Go Mayans every time and research Hul’chee Javelineers, conqs won’t be a problem ever again 
Or go Berbers and make Genitours or Camel archers. Conqs are fine.
maybe it should be 5 range in Castle Age (Skirmisher and Crossbow would be more effective) and in Imperial Age, RoF 2.9 to 2.4 (21% attack speed) and 18 to 19 attack (10% attack).
You are still killing the only thing Spain can do