Countu's new civ suggestions (Swiss, Finno-Ugrians and Frisians)

[DukeCountuu]

I would like to suggest three new civs: Swiss, Finno-Ugrians and Frisians.

Some of these suggestions were inspired by the Napoleonic era mod for AoE III.

Swiss:

• Specialty: Pikemen and unique units
• Unique unit: Reislaufer (Halberd-wielding unit with +1 range and +2 bonus against standard buildings, elite version has +1 additional attack, melee armor and pierce armor than the Halberdier)
• Unique technologies:
• Swiss Guard (+2 attack and +2 bonus vs standard building for Reislaufer and spearmen)
• Mercenary Captains (Replaces food cost for Reislaufer and Bierhaus units with additional gold cost)
• Wonder: Château de Chillon
• Civilization bonuses:
• Start with a free goat
• Villagers have +1/+2/+3 pierce armor in the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age
• Spearmen have +1/+2 attack in the Castle/Imperial Age
• Bierhaus becomes available in the Imperial Age, can train unique units of ally and enemy civilizations.
• Team bonus: Gold/stone mines last 15% longer.
• Architecture: Central European

Suomi:

(Emblem should probably be something different from this tbh)

• Specialty: Infantry
• Unique unit: Sõdalane (Infantry warrior wearing a Bear pelt, able to switch his weapon between one-handed axe which gives a bonus against infantry and a spear which grants a bonus against cavalry, switching temporarily lowers stats)
• Unique technologies:
• Peijaiset (Spawns a one time group of 8 deer from every Mill and Town Center)
• Forest Finns (Replaces gold cost of Sõdalane with wood cost)
• Wonder: Turku Cathedral
• Civilization bonuses:
• Town Center has no stone cost
• Militia line has +1 range
• Each Town Center spawns 5 bears with each Age-up.
• First 50 Palisade walls are free.
• Team bonus: Gains trickle of 1.25 wood starting in Feudal Age.
• Architecture: East European

Frisians:

• Specialty: infantry and navy
• Unique unit:
• Geuzen (Sword-weilding infantry whose attack ignores armor, basically dismounted Leitis)
• Hulk (Unarmed transport ship that can train Barracks and archery range units)
• Unique technologies:
• Hanseatic Marines (Hulks can now fire arrows as long as units are inside)
• Protestant Reformation (Provides a one time payment of one gold for every thirty seconds the game has been running times the number of monestaries you have built but disables Relic gold generation and Relic victory)
  Wonder: Kasteel De Haar
• Civilization bonuses:
• Fishing ships do not need to drop off at docks.
• Villagers can garrison Mills
• Two-handed swordsman upgrade availible in Castle Age.
• One warship at a time can garrison inside the dock to heal.
• Team bonus: Trade cogs have +1 armor.
• Architecture: West European

What are your opinions?

[casusincorrabil]

Napoleon in Age 2? xD

But I would like the swiss in age 2, a civ representing the “infantry revolution” with their mercenaries (Gewalthaufen).

But devs seem to be more interested in adding more cav civs in eastern europe.

[DukeCountuu]

Napoleonic era mod for Age III did a lot of cool stuff tbh, added Teutonic Knights and Mangudai to the game.

[TungstenBoar]

@DukeCountuu

Reislaufer (Pikeman unit with 1 range, elite version has +1 additional attack, melee armor and pierce armor than the Halberdier)

Basically a Kamayuk.

@DukeCountuu

Swiss Guard (+1 attack for Reislaufer and spearmen)

Too small

@DukeCountuu

• Start with a free goat

Too much like Incas

@DukeCountuu

Villagers have +6/+7/+8 pierce armor in the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age

Eh… Not a fan. Literally makes archer rushes almost pointless and its a bit too good.

@DukeCountuu

• Spearmen have +1/+2 attack in the Castle/Imperial Age

Burmese

@DukeCountuu

Brothel becomes available in the Imperial Age, can train unique units of ally and enemy civilizations.

NOPE

@DukeCountuu

• Peijaiset (Spawns a one time group of 8 deer from every Mill and Town Center)

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh… Not really sure about this one

@DukeCountuu

Forest Finns (Replaces gold cost of militia line with wood cost)

Basically Forced Leby

@DukeCountuu

Town Center has no stone cost

A better Bulgarian bonus

@DukeCountuu

• Villagers generate 0.367 food per second when fighting wild animals.

Useless

@DukeCountuu

• Each Town Center spawns 5 bears with each Age-up.

Ok, this is either useless beyond feudal or too strong in feudal.

@DukeCountuu

• Hanseatic Marines (Hulks can now fire arrows as long as units are inside)

Pretty weak

@DukeCountuu

Protestant Reformation (Provides a one time payment of one gold for every two seconds the game has been running times the number of monestaries you have built but disables Relic gold generation and Relic victory)

Too complicated

@DukeCountuu

Farm upgrades are free.

Franks have this

@DukeCountuu

• Villagers can garrison Mills

Why not make it affect lumber camps and mining camps? Add extra LoS on mills, lumber camps and mining camps as the team bonus for great synegy as well.

@DukeCountuu

Warships heal atomatically within 3 tiles of a dock.

Impossible to code. At best you will be able to make docks heal like monks but area effects dont work I think

@DukeCountuu

Team bonus: Trade between players generates +30% gold.

Spanish bonus

[PanCalvus]

@DukeCountuu

Each Town Center spawns 5 bears with each Age-up.

Bears or boars?

@DukeCountuu

Mercenary Captains (Replaces food cost for Reislaufer and brothel units with additional gold cost)

Why would you want that?

[DukeCountuu]

@TungstenBoar

Basically a Kamayuk.

I completely forgot that existed lol

How about this: it reduces the speed of units after it hits them with a melee attack, along with any other units grouped-up with it.

@TungstenBoar

Too small

You’re probably right.

@TungstenBoar

NOPE

Lol, it’s one of my best ideas imo, maybe you could add something mitigating, like they take up more population, but going up against Swiss you should worry about potentially facing your own unique units.

@TungstenBoar

Useless

I wouldn’t say extra food is ever useless, especially in the early game.

@TungstenBoar

Pretty weak

It would essentially give you another warship class is my idea.

@TungstenBoar

Too complicated

Basically the more monestaries you build and the more time you’ve played the more gold you get.

@TungstenBoar

Franks have this

Damn, you’re right, I’ll need to think of something else there.

@TungstenBoar

Why not make it affect lumber camps and mining camps? Add extra LoS on mills, lumber camps and mining camps as the team bonus for great synegy as well.

The idea was based on the Netherlands being fameous for windmills.

@TungstenBoar

Spanish bonus

Alternative: players can trade with their own markets.

@PanCalvus

Bears or boars?

Bears, they were sacred to Finnish Pagans.

@PanCalvus

Why would you want that?

You’re right, better it remove the food cost completely or reduce both.

[TungstenBoar]

@DukeCountuu

How about this: it reduces the speed of units after it hits them with a melee attack, along with any other units grouped-up with it.

Uncodable as well

@DukeCountuu

Lol, it’s one of my best ideas imo, maybe you could add something mitigating, like they take up more population, but going up against Swiss you should worry about potentially facing your own unique units

First: does it really make sense to do this with Swiss? Second: I just dont like civs sharing their main UU with no limit.

@DukeCountuu

Basically the more monestaries you build and the more time you’ve played the more gold you get.

Still too complicated. Also we already have more than enough gold UTs.

@DukeCountuu

The idea was based on the Netherlands being fameous for windmills.

As it is the bonus is too small, thats why I think that making it apply on all buildings would be nice.

@DukeCountuu

Alternative: players can trade with their own markets.

Too good in 1v1s

Edit: Also the hunting bonus effect is insignificant and unreliable, thats the problem

[PanCalvus]

@DukeCountuu

Bears, they were sacred to Finnish Pagans.

Yeah, but bears just kill your villagers. That’s not a bonus. Is this to justify the weird bonus of generating food while fighting animals? Or are they supposed to be trained bears?

@DukeCountuu

You’re right, better it remove the food cost completely or reduce both.

If by better you mean more OP. Now you’ve got a better opponent’s unique unit then the opponent. I don’t think I like either of those options…

[MatCauthon3]

@DukeCountuu

• Villagers have +6/+7/+8 pierce armor in the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age

yes let’s just make this civ immune to archers.

@DukeCountuu

• Unique unit: Reislaufer (Pikeman unit with 1 range, elite version has +1 additional attack, melee armor and pierce armor than the Halberdier)

@DukeCountuu

• Swiss Guard (+1 attack for Reislaufer and spearmen)

@DukeCountuu

• Spearmen have +1/+2 attack in the Castle/Imperial Age

yeah this civ isn’t going to do so well if its based around a counter unit, what does it use for offsense?

@DukeCountuu

• Team bonus: Gold/stone mines last 15% longer.

because we absolutely must team them up with a mayans player and laugh.

@DukeCountuu

• Unique unit: Sõdalane (Infantry warrior wearing a Bear pelt, able to switch his weapon between one-handed axe which gives a bonus against infantry and a spear which grants a bonus against cavalry, switching temporarily lowers stats)

activated abilities in aoe2? please take this to other games that like activated abilities.

@DukeCountuu

• Peijaiset (Spawns a one time group of 8 deer from every Mill and Town Center)

hunting in castle age? ehhh. also, one off abilities aren’t much fun, and not really liked in the aoe2 community.

@DukeCountuu

• Forest Finns (Replaces gold cost of militia line with wood cost)

we already have a civ with “trash militia”.

@DukeCountuu

• Town Center has no stone cost

can’t see how this would be busted…go up to feudal, sell stone, go up to castle age faster, drop tcs asap.

@DukeCountuu

• Each Town Center spawns 5 bears with each Age-up.

oh yay, more non aoe2 style abilities.

@DukeCountuu

• First 50 Palisade walls are free.

yeah not a fan of free walls.

@DukeCountuu

• Team bonus: Gains trickle of 1.25 wood starting in Feudal Age.

oh wonderful - infinite wood, what could go wrong with that.

@DukeCountuu

• Geuzen (Sword-weilding infantry whose attack ignores armor, basically dismounted Leitis)

doubt it would see use, still gonna get wrecked by archers, slower then cavalry. look how much use the Leitis sees these days.

@DukeCountuu

• Hulk (Unarmed transport ship that can train Barracks and archery range units)

really don’t like the idea of this. too abusable.

@DukeCountuu

Protestant Reformation (Provides a one time payment of one gold for every two seconds the game has been running times the number of monestaries you have built but disables Relic gold generation and Relic victory)

something that can disable a win con for your opponent? doesn’t seem right.

@DukeCountuu

• Farm upgrades are free.

franks already have this.

@DukeCountuu

• Team bonus: Trade between players generates +30% gold.

spanish have this.

half your bonuses are lifted from other civs, and half of them are ideas that fit aoe3 or warcraft or starcraft better then aoe2.

@DukeCountuu

Lol, it’s one of my best ideas imo, maybe you could add something mitigating, like they take up more population, but going up against Swiss you should worry about potentially facing your own unique units.

it reeks of aoe3 though.

[ArgentStew]

There’s some interesting ideas here, but a good number of the bonuses are copies of or better versions of ones that other civs have.

I’d also like to point out that Protestant Reformation seems way overpowered. If you’re 50 minutes into the game and you have 10 monasteries built, you’re basically looking at: 3000 seconds * 0.5 gold per second * 10 monasteries = 15,000 gold! That’s an insane amount of gold to get that late in the game considering the gold may be running out at that point.

[VAeolus8112]

AoE 2 civilizations correspondes to medieval states. It may be called differently but it correspondes to some medieval state. Or group of similar medieval states. And when I say “states” I mean “states”. Not tribes or tribal unions.

What state Finno-Ugrians supposed to represent? Hungary?
Because other Finno-Ugrian peoples didn’t have any state. Lithuania was the first real state in east Baltic region.

Same goes for Frissians.
We already have Burgundians to represent contemporary Netherlands. And teutons to represent german duchies.
So who are Frissians? What state will they represent?

[DukeCountuu]

@TungstenBoar

First: does it really make sense to do this with Swiss? Second: I just dont like civs sharing their main UU with no limit.

like I said, you could make it so they take up extra pop space, so you wouldn’t be able to train as many of them, also you wouldn’t be able to get elite upgrades.

@TungstenBoar

Too good in 1v1s

Another alternative: trade cogs have +1 extra armor.

@PanCalvus

Yeah, but bears just kill your villagers. That’s not a bonus. Is this to justify the weird bonus of generating food while fighting animals? Or are they supposed to be trained bears?

They would be Bears you control.

@MatCauthon3

something that can disable a win con for your opponent? doesn’t seem right.

It wouldn’t remove the opponents relic gold or relic victory, just your own, a tradeoff for getting the gold.

@MatCauthon3

franks already have this.

Alternative: Mills automatically gather from adjacent food sources (farms, bushes, dead animals) within one tile at the rate of half a villager plus another half for every farming upgrade researched.

[MatCauthon3]

@DukeCountuu

Alternative: Mills automatically gather from adjacent food sources (farms, bushes, dead animals) within one tile at the rate of half a villager plus another half for every farming upgrade researched.

this would be impossible to code and definitely something that could be abused.

[DukeCountuu]

@ArgentStew

I’d also like to point out that Protestant Reformation seems way overpowered. If you’re 50 minutes into the game and you have 10 monasteries built, you’re basically looking at: 3000 seconds * 0.5 gold per second * 10 monasteries = 15,000 gold! That’s an insane amount of gold to get that late in the game considering the gold may be running out at that point.

Yeah, you’re not wrong, maybe it could be every one minute instead of every two seconds, or just every two seconds and unaffected by the number of monestatries. The idea of the tech is to “simulate” the seizure of Church lands during the early reformation, which allowed rulers to gain a lot of cash.

@VAeolus8112

Same goes for Frissians.
We already have Burgundians to represent contemporary Netherlands. And teutons to represent german duchies.
So who are Frissians? What state will they represent?

Goths and Teutons arguably both cover the Germans. The point of Frisians is to add a civ that simulates the North Sea Hanseatic league and serve as another viable Naval civ.

It actually suprised me tbh that Burgundians were not a naval civ for that very reason.

@MatCauthon3

this would be impossible to code and definitely something that could be abused.

Perhaps, I wouldn’t have expected something like the Konnik to be possible before DE came out tho tbh.

The only alternative I can think of would be a water alternative to the Khmer bonus, where fishing ships don’t need dropoff points.

[Hvscarl]

Not sure why Swiss get brothels, lol… but you came up with some unique ideas and got the spirit of the civs down pat (mostly).

I think you meant boars, not bears. But I really like the UU and UT ideas for the Finno-Ugrics. That is a civ I’ve been waiting to see for awhile.

Frisians/Dutch are another good idea but will need some tweaking

[CheshireWig3203]

90% of these bonuses are already used by existing civs.

[Mahazona]

Finns should be added they are not slavic or vikings.swiss might be in teutons but so was burgundians in franks.

[TungstenBoar]

@DukeCountuu

like I said, you could make it so they take up extra pop space, so you wouldn’t be able to train as many of them, also you wouldn’t be able to get elite upgrades.

Still bad, I just dont like it. I wouldnt like if any civ shared his UU with no limit so that isnt a problem with jus this but your idea makes the usefulness of these units so limited that at the end of the day its better if you just give them a castle age bonus

@DukeCountuu

Another alternative: trade cogs have +1 extra armor.

Useless

[TungstenBoar]

@Mahazona

Finns should be added they are not slavic or vikings

Finns are worse than Mapuche who arent even necesary.

@Mahazona

burgundians

Burgundians werent a really good choice but they serve to represent the Dutch mostly.

[Szaladon]

@TungstenBoar

Burgundians werent a really good choice but they serve to represent the Dutch mostly.

Disagree on Burgundians being a good choice when the boni (with the exception of the two gimmicky UT) could have easily been used for a way more interesting Tufan/Tibetans civ which was an actual empire instead of just a Kingdom which was relevant for just a short period of time.

I’m in the middle of reading a book about the history of Burgundy and to be honest, it just further confirms how unnecessary they are in my eyes considering how interconnected they were with French history overall and they were really relevant for like one century max.

@DukeCountuu: As a Swiss myself, I consider it kinda offensive that you’re seriously suggesting a brothel as Swiss unique building. Call it a Tavern or whatever else, but seriously, a brothel is not a unique Swiss thing or a thing Switzerland is famous for ( I hope so at least)