Crazy Age 4 change to Maltese Sentinels

Sentinels are, well ok. At least until late age 3+. They’re a good bit better than a regular musketeer, but at 2 pop, they quickly, and I mean very quickly fall off even with their good HP and defense boost. To put it simply, they aren’t worth their two pop when it matters. To attempt to make up for this in age 4 the Maltese have the “Flintlock rockets” card, which boosts their attack and HP and gives them a charged rocket attack (if this seems similar that’s because sentinels are just knock off soldados). While this card is good and helpful, the sentinel simply is still not worth it at two pop.

So I’m suggesting a major change: removing the Flintlock Rockets card. Now this may seem counter intuitive, but don’t worry, I’m gonna suggest a change to another card “Wall Guns”.

Now you may wonder why I want this card removed, and I have a few reasons. 1. There is really no reason to have this card Thematically. The Knights of Saint John did use rockets for signaling, but I can find little to no evidence that there was any substantial use of them for Fighting, and it seems to me the whole card is based on one or two that are kept in a Maltese museum. I also don’t understand why giving your soldiers a one-time firing rocket would boost them in other combat either. 2. There is no real reason for this to be in the game game-wise. They still aren’t worth using and they aren’t even, in my opinion, a fun unique unit. But as said earlier just knock-offs of the much better Soldado. Especially in the very late game.

So what am I suggesting? I’m suggesting that Wall Guns should become the big Age 4 card, but obviously not as is. Wall guns are basically just big powerful long-range guns that were historically used for defending fortifications. The card now somewhat represents this by making your sentinels shoot further and deal slightly more damage when near walls. But this card is never used as it is quite objectively just bad. Both in the early and later stages of the game. I think there is a better way to represent what they historically were and make it very fun game-wise, so here’s my plan…

Wall Guns (Age 4, 1000c): Equips your sentinels with powerful guns, increasing their range (+3 for a total of 16) and making them deal Siege damage. But makes them shoot slower (4 rof) and move slower (-20%). Increases cost (+20%?). Increases defense boost effect (+20-30% instead of 15%).

What this would do is make Sentinels good at what they should be good at–standing nearby fortifications and shooting. I don’t think this would be OP, (with negative multi vs cannons), as they would still be countered by what should counter them (skirm have 20 range so are still safe). But if they’re able to get in range (such as an opponent overcommitting under your base, which works thematically) they’d be able to decimate a lot of units. And due to their low speed you wouldn’t have to worry about them diving and just wrecking all your units.

These numbers could obviously be adjusted, but I think this would be a great change to this unit, making them very unique, fun, and actually useful in the later stages of the game. Let me know what you think!

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The other option would be +5 range +150% ranged attack (+~35 damage), +30% cost, -15% speed.

Slower shooting and slower movement speed would make me be less willing to use Sentiels later in the game because that hurts their offensive ability I would rather have them keep the cards as they are then to do that kinda change.

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They’re already so bad at sieging that I already almost never use them offensively if possible. So my attempt with this change is to establish their role as a defensive units, which with either of these changes they’d be great at.

To be clear I don’t think this is the extent of changes Malta needs so you could boost other of their units for offensive purposes.

I’d go with “Adds +3 ranges and makes Sentinels deal siege damage when near friendly fortifications. Sentinels gain 25% hp and +20% cost.”

Currently, they aren’t great. I think you’re adding unnecessary debuffs.

I always try to shy on debufs too much tbh. But I do it to try to make things as unique as possible.

I tend towards being fairly conservative on balance changes and new additions overall (so I hear you), but I don’t think it’s necessary here and I did suggest tying it to being near a friendly fortification, so I suspect it wouldn’t be an issue.

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Part of what I was trying to do was replace the “flintlock rockets” card. Which is partly why I went so drastic.

Change the Wall Guns card to replace their normal guns with new guns that do siege damage and add +1 range with a additional +1 range when near friendly walls. Wall Guns need to give nothing but positives that are easy to take advantage of to get people to really consider using it.

Replace Flintlock Rockets with a card that makes Sentinels become a 1 pop unit with some ranged armor added and a little more expensive to train.

3 Likes

Yeah, that was part of why I said you were over debuffing. Maxed out Sentinels are losing like 35% attack/hp from FLRs so I figured you didn’t need much more in the debuffs.

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Both changes together would probably be a bit much.

If it is you could adjust how much damage Sentinels new siege damage ranged attack does against artillery and cavalry with a attack handicap.

Well the problem is just that their base stats are worth more than one pop.

What about—
Wall Guns, Age 4, 500 ##### equips your sentinels with wall guns, granting +3 range and siege damage (+2 would make them equal to caroleans).
Defense boost now grants 20% rr (like they’re hiding behind buildings), and increased damage and HP (30% instead of 15%). I’d need to do the math on this but if they stay 2 pop I don’t think cost or speed would need to be nerfed.

Some Musketeer type comparison

The Sentinels current base stats aren’t anything crazy and compared to Ashigaru Musketeer they are worse in almost every way.

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Ashi cost much more I believe. Although they’re for sure worth it. I need to do tests on the hp but sentinels should get pretty high for their cost.

ashi are more population efficient, in exchange for being significantly less cost effective (at least initially). Sentinels are quite cost effective units but poor performance for population. This would be fine if malta had some sort of extremely population efficient unit to balance off of. In game example currently would be like the strelet/cossack balance. Strel are not worth one pop at all but a cossack is definitely better than all other 1 pop cavalry and even pretty close to some 2 pop units too.

Actually including the implicit wood cost for housing and the vill seconds sentinels come dangerously close the ahsi in cost.


That is from a unit type comparison I did sometime ago with units on the open battlefield without a aura from being near allied buildings, flags, Daimyo or Shogun.

Note: Not sure if any stats have been changed since then.

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