Crossbowman and culverin of Maltese need to be nerfed


Crossbowman of Maltese are enhanced too much by Steel Bolts.

As you can see, after Steel Bolts, they are not only skirmishers, but also mortars, which can siege in 18 range in age 3.
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So, if we can nerf the attack of ranged siege of crossbowman with Steel Bolts? Such as cut them to a half or a quarter, just like what Siege Archery do for longbowman.


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As for culverin of Maltese, it is too OP that they can get benefit from 2% hp from each shipment. After 8 shipments, their hp will be more than 320, which means other culverins need to take 3 shots to kill them, while they only need 2 shots to kill other culverins.
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That’s really unreasonable and unfair. Maybe we can balance them by preventing artillery from benefiting from 2% health, or give them an upper limit.

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Malta is currently the worse civ in the game and it’s hilarious you would suggest a nerf to a civ that requires 4 cards to make their xbows viable. FYI early siege beats Malta, FF beats Malta.

A competent British, Indian, Portuguese, Swedish, or Ottoman player absolutely crushes Malta every time.

Literally no need to nerf xbows, if anything Malta needs a +50f start, or a -25w cost to German Tongue.

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You would be nerfing the Italians pavisiers as well, as they share that card, and the pavisiers don’t need a nerf for sure…

Malta either doesn’t need much nerfs, as it doesn’t seem to be an OP civ lately, both KotM civs are decent, but far from being strong civs…

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bueno los arqueros de tiro largo asedian cada 1,5 segundos y los ballesteros cada 3 asi que tampoco es que nerfearan el daño de asedio de los arqueros de tiro largo, que oigame tienen con una carta 26 de rango y disparan a una velocidad de 1,5 segundos asi que daño de sobra si que tienen

In fact, Maltese are not weak. Their only weakness is that they have no way to deal with 2Falconet FF.

Maltese’s balance is very poor at present. Their ability of anti-heavy-cav in the middle of the game is so weak that they can only win by building walls, using crossbowmen and culverins to defend until their units and eco are strong enough. Therefore, the best way to improve is to strengthen the sentinel or give a way to reduce their pop to 1 in the late time, then give a 1 culverins shipment in age 3, and then modify the crossbow hand and Snake Cannon according to the method mentioned above.

agree, artillery and fixed guns should not have the 2% hp /card ( same for warship btw )

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Firstly, it’s not a big deal to split this shipment in Maltese and Italians.

Secondly, the pavisier is useless because Italians have bersagkiere in age 4 and they are easily to go to age 4, so they never use this card. And can you imagine an 18 range siege in bersagkiere? So the nerf of Steel Bolts will have no effect to Italians, and it is very stupid for a main force skirmisher to have an 18 range siege.

Thirdly, Maltese is not a op civ, that’s right. But Maltese’s military is deformed - their heavy cavalry and anti-heavy cavalry are so weak in the middle of the game that they can only win through the group of crossbowman and wall. At the same time, their skirmishers and culverin are so powerful that this wall-skirmisher-culverin group is almost perfect while dealing with other civs.

Longbowman’s range attack is 19 with 1.5 rof, and their siege attack is 6 and 1 burning damage with 1.5 rof, it is obviously weakened.

that is really fair for Spanish, lol

I think just buffing the wall gun card (that gives them range and extra attack based on walls) so that its all defensive buildings and walls would be better, also increase the range where the effect counts

1 pop sentinel in the lategame might be too much. They would be a musket with 18 range in the lategame and thats pretty good

it is really awkward that the combat effectiveness of sentinel is more than 1 pop but less than 2 pop lol.

Yeah so I think the best solution is just to buff it rather then then change the pop since its much easier to fine tune % stat change then effectively just doubling it per pop.

IIRC their defenders aura is final stat based so if we just introduce small changes to buffs it will scale pretty well in the end game.

So just off the top of my head about the sentinel upgrades (not accounting for the HP bonus) it gets about 2.8x stats from all of its upgrades and then the final defenders bonus which stacks multiplicatively so its about 3.22x stats at the end. This gives it an attack per pop about 30% short of a late game Janissary, which is already pretty lacklustre.

If we just give it another 20% atk buff somewhere and also increased the defenders bonus(either from buffing wall guns, the combat card or anything) then it would basically be the same as a Janissary which combined with its other advantages I think should be enough

edit: so just to list out the suggestions

  • Combat card to 20% stat
  • wall guns to 20% atk ( and allowing all defensive buildings to affect it with increased range)
  • and battle bluster to 50%
  • defenders bonus to cap to 25%

edit edit: forgot about the gunpoweder depot but that is risky so lets not count it and math was a bit off

esse post e algum tipo de meme ? a questão das culverin concordo mais os crossbows e completamente irreal malta e rank F no tier de civilizações em supremacia idade 2 3

The shipment is the same, you cannot "split" it…

Pavisiers and bersaglieri are two different kind of units, with 2 different roles. The argument let’s nerf one because they have the other doesn’t make much sense, otherwise they wouldn’t gave Italy 2 UUs.

The bersaglieri is a fragile but fast skirm useful to hit and run, while the pavisier is a tanky archer more suited to static battles and to siege buildings.

Also, that card is good for the effect that it have on the xbow/pavisier, but it affects only those units, so you really have to go heavy into those 2 units to justify sending it.

Maltese lack any kind of skirmishers, the xbows are their default options to counter heavy infantry at range, and while it’s good it’s ot particularly strong, a lot of other skirms are better.

As for the xbow and basilisks, what makes them strong is the fact that they receive +2% HP with every shipment, while their upgrades buff their attack, so in the end you buff both their attack and HP. Still, considering how restricted is malta roster I believe that it’s justified to have some combo that are really really strong.

And by the way heavy cav still counter a xbows and culv combo.

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i mean it is easy to design another one for Italian.

they are same to each other actually. both of them are skirmishers. it is no need to divide them into two roles in actual combat.

and pavisier is not a tanky archer, and they are not suitable for static battles. it’s just in your mind.

You can compare crossbowman to yumi archer. They all have high attach but low anti heavy inf. This does not affect their ability to kill heavy inf.

Maltese’s roster is restricted , but this is not the reason why they can have an invincible group. A correct balance should be that there are no restricted or very small restricted for a civ. Malta’s situation can only lead the game becoming very boring, including himself and his opponents.

For most civs, enclosing themselves with walls is suicide - unless they have a strong late outbreak, but this is usually unbalanced. For example, few editions ago, the Morris Canal in the United States, the Barbary Revolution in Italy and Ottoman. But for the Maltese, they are so suitable for defense that the opponent cannot break this defense line at all, and the Maltese can slowly become stronger to defeat the opponent.

there is one thing you missed: wall

Yes, at least we should strengthen them to the strength of Mexican musketeers, if we want them to be 2pop.

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Pavisiers have 35% ranged resistance, bersaglieri have just 20%. Bersaglieri have 5 movement speed, pavisiers have 4.

Overall, the pavisier get more HP through shipments, while the bersaglieri get more attack, but sure, they are basically the same unit… lol what were the devs thinking when they gave 2 UUs to Italy…

But that’s not a problem of the combo itself, heavy cav still tanks everything that xbows+culvs throws at them.

But why? It’s not necessary, it’s not that +2 range that makes them broken, and for sure you don’t siege enemy buildings behind your walls.

Also, the most obvious solution would be to remove the card from the maltese rosters.

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con respecto a lo del bersaglieri y el pavisier seria lo mismo que decir de por que los rusos tienen cosacos y oprichnik si son caballeria pesada y son lo mismo xd

yo a los pavisier los veo diferentes a los bersaglieries de que estos aun se pueden defender mejor contra la caballeria e inclusive la artilleria, los bersaglieris por otro lado lo hacen mejor contra la caballeria ligera y infanteria pesada.

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Devs failed, it is right that Pavisier will be tanky after Heavy Paveses but it is meaningless. Because after players invest 2 card to make Pavisier viable in age 3, they go totally useless when you hit age 4. By the way, it is not difficult for Italians to hit age 4. So why can’t I just go age 4 and train bersaglieri instead of spending cards to strengthen the Pavisier? And why don’t I use Papal Lancer, Hussar or musketeers as a tank? All in all, the key defect of Pavisier is They need too much investment to strengthen, but after strengthening, they are still not the top of the field.

4 speed is common on most of the ranged soldiers. This do not means they are suitable for static battles. It just means they are not as good at HR as Bersaglieri. If someone have a buff when they are static, that means they are suitable for static battles, like Longbowman or Gatling Gun with Coffee Mill Guns (Strictly speaking, they just have to have a static battle. What really suitable for static battle should be the Gatt tank in Red Alert 2).

In early game, Maltese have a strong anti-cav ability and they do not need to use crossbowman most of the time. It is easy to build a wall and push before Sentinels and dragon are abandoned for their pop and low cost performance.

I said this in order to throw the Italian out of this topic. This topic can have no effect to the Italian at all

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