Oprichnik is specialized in raiding, can do no more than burning buildings and rading vills. Pavisier is not.
Oprichnik can raid with no cards, Pavisier cannot.
Oprichnik can still be used in age 4 with no input, Pavisiers cannot.
5 Oprichniks can make opponent shocked when they are found in the base area. While 10 Pavisiers in the front line will not make opponents feel too much pressure.
This is still a problem of uneconomical input and output. They need too much investment to strengthen, but after strengthening, they are still not an Irreplaceable character in the field.
I know they are not a op civ in supremacy. However, to some extent, this is due to the fact that players are not used to playing in Malta. Just like the United States was regarded as up civ in the beginning of the edition until the Morrison Canal building was developed. Now it is obvious that the crossbowman and culverin will become an invincible group of Malta. Why canāt we improve it before players get that? Must we ignore it until everyone scold this civ is a lamer?
Agree that the siege atk on the xbow probably needs a nerf
In the other siege cases the siege attack has a long winding animation that slows it down, even if it has faster rate of fire
xbow with steel bolts is almost in a walled up siege mass
also agree on fixed gun not being affected by hp techs
on the nerfing of steel bolts, even if the card is shared, xbow and pavisier are 2 seperate units, the nerfing of siege attack only needs to specifically mention xbow for the effects to be seperate
But thatās another argument, the fact that they intended to give the 2 UU 2 different roles and the fact that they didnāt achieve that are 2 different things.
Also, in age 4 you still have roman tactics, which can make the pavisiers viable in age 4, at least while you switch into something else, then I agree that the pavisiers need some tweaksā¦
If you go FI of course the bersaglieri are the best option, but not against all civs and not if you go for other strategies, like FF or semi FF.
Thatās exactly what every other civ can do, except with skirms that have 30% ranged resistanceā¦ bersaglieri have just 20%, so even with the papal units, they are fragile, while the pavisiers are more solid, and thanks exactly to heavy bolts can effectively siege buildings.
Having 2 skirms units might seem redundant, but they donāt fill each other roles, no matter the angle you look at themā¦
In fact itās more about the bersaglieri 5 speed, which they trade for 10% less resistance of any other skirm, and 15% less than the pavisiers, along with some less HP.
On upgrades overall, the bersaglieri can get +30% attack and have 5 speed, while the pavisiers +20% HP and +15% resistance (which can be changed into what you need).
Tell me again that they are the same unitsā¦
He meant that just because russia have 2 melee cav, it doesnāt mean that one is the same as the othersā¦ not that oprichnik is the same unit as the pavisierā¦
Ok, letās agree on no changes on the Italians since this is getting out of topicā¦
Still, what makes malta xbows so strong isnāt necessary the steel bolts, itās that they have a lot going on for them.
They have +30% attack and HP, and another +10% from the guard upgrade, then add steel bolts and the +2% HP for each shipmentā¦ thatās what makes them too strong.
Iāll accept some of this stuff as just civ peculiarity and live with it. However, the fixed gun nonsense is simply broken. I brought this up months ago. That Malta can castle drop these guns in the middle of your towns to simply scour everything from the land really sucks. If youāve lost your tc you are already on your heels. That Malta can simply drop a gun or two to demolish whatās left on autopilot while his army is 100 percent free to hunt you down is complete bullshit.
There should be some restrictions on their placement. They should be defensive not offensive.
The culvern shipment and bonuses is also broke. It seems minor but two Malta culvern are essentially worth three. It makes it the equivalent of an age 4:card
he means they have same role, both are meant to counter light cavalry and heavy infantry
Agreed, they can be offensive, just not right up to your base. Mid-map is fine. Building placement restrictions should apply.
We can probably do the spacing restrictions used by cherry orchards where the cannon need to be space a certain distance away from the starting tcās build restriction circle.
Although this only makes it so that the starting tc is extremely important.
Once that is gone its still free to place anywhere
I for one am simply amazed that bullshit is not a censored word considering how hyper reactive some of the auto editing is on this game forum and in usernames.
Maybe you understand these two units from the vision of PVE, then they are really different. This topic is meaningless, letās end it.
ok thanks, i canāt understand what heās mean.
lol, censored word in this forum is really strange, just like what in game.
yes, especially after your first TC was destroyed
Yeahā¦ Iām not a fan of fixed gunsā¦
My opinion on malta has actually improved since its release (since I saw it as a recycling of just campaign assetsā¦) now I believe that itās a good civ overall, but I still donāt like the fixed guns, or the use that you can make of them.
I agree with nerfing the fixed gun a bit, while buffing an aspect or two of the civ instead. Despite all of the cool features, theyāre still missing something that sets them slightly behind everyone else.
Sure itās possible to have a really strong army and exploit their civ bonuses and win, but you have to work harder than the opponent and their relative civ bonuses and it usually comes out shorthanded when two people of equal skill are versing one another.
Yes letās nerf the worst civ in the game and remove all itās unique features just as we did with inca.
Thatās just propaganda. Malta is not weak. The xbow spam of Malta is a busted meta. You shouldnāt be able to kill everything w a single unit
Malta has been underperforming since release, actually.
The crossbowman as a standalone unit after 4 cards and 10 minutes is obviously formidable but it doesnāt trump other civs and their bonuses. And is literally only possible if you let them.
Early siege hurts malta a lot more than people think, a well-executed FF also auto-wins against Malta most of the time.
Yeah but if the one unit you have to upgrade kills everything itās not like its a burden.
It still gets countered by its counters, itās by no means a ābrokenā unit. The reason its potential is high is because of the civ bonus and cards - mind you, other civs get their bonuses immediately and this one takes a while to take effect. Itās not like their eco is so superb that you can get away with murder.
I agree that defending with Fixed Guns is a bit OP though, Iām all for nerfing that.