Cuman Mercenaries Buff

Current effect: team members can create 10 free elite kipchaks in castle

Suggested effect: team members can create 10 free elite kipchaks per individual castle

This will allow team members to create kipchaks as long as they keep making castles, and it will also provide a suitable 1 vs 1 effect if it is also useable by the cuman player making it similar to first crusade.


i think cumans are realy strong already and first crusade is not something we want to be aiming for.


It would be more or less a weaker version of first crusade, the ‘free’ units still need to be trained after the tech is researched and you’d need to build multiple castles to reach the numbers the sicilians do.


i agree the tech is in a bad place right now but i would prefer a complete rework rather then trying to tweak it. giving cav archers to your teamates isent realy a good tech. 1 time use techs i feel should be abolished alltogether. i think something like kipchacks can be made in all teamates archery ranges would work better.


I think it would be much stronger in team games. Kipchaks >> Sergeants and most civs have stronger kipchacks than cumans.

I do not really like the one time effect techs like that either, and it looks like the balance team want to get away from it too, as it seems that they are reworking the burgundian vinyards tech.

Maybe have them in the castle as they are a uu.4th and 9th slots are still free in the castle ui.

yea that works well. just give up on it having 1v1 potential because they already good there

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I like it, works somehow like tartar bonus with sheep per new tc.

Make the tech a bit cheaper but let the kipchsk cost 40g to train

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Pasted from my other balance suggestions:

  • Cuman Mercenaries changed so that it now allows the creation of fifteen Kipchak Mercenaries. The first 15 of these are free, and then may be replaced via the normal training method at the Castle, as long as there are less than fifteen. The Kipchak Mercenary is a new unit, unaffected by blacksmith upgrades or any other technologies. Civ bonuses still affect it. It costs 30W 70G, and has a ten second training time (5 seconds for Cumans to make it better in 1v1s). It has 50 HP, 9 attack, fires 4 arrows, the extra arrows work the same as an Elite Kipchak, has +2 attack against Spearmen, 7 range, has 4/6 armor. It the same ROF, firing delay, accuracy, and frame delay as an Elite Kipchak with Thumb Ring, shares the same armor classes (Archer, Cav Archer, Cavalry, Unique Unit), has 1.4 speed, and has a LoS of 7. Cuman Mercenaries is a bad tech, especially in a 1v1. I think that this would be a good way to make it more viable.

I have another idea : keep the current effect. But once the 10 free kipchaks are made, allow creating more afterwards, for a price :
Regular price + 20 gold, for a total of 60 food and 55 gold.

The extra 20 gold will go to the Cuman ally’s coffers once the unit is created.

Not only will that make the tech useful after its one-time use, but actually paying your Cuman ally fits the concept of mercenaries.


Italian condos says Hi.

There is a subtle difference. Condotieri are mercenary companies independant from the Italian player, that is a prince or a city-state. Cuman mercenaries are paying a khan, the Cuman player, for some of his troops.

I dissagree. Cumans were known for providing soldier to fight for their allies, especially the Georgians, Franks and Mongols. The Cuman Mercinaries tech is brillaint, if poeple wish to tweek it by adjusting the amount or Mercs per castle , by all means but the tech has to stay.


I can think of another idea :
in 1v1, the current tech has absolutely no use. But if we change the gold cost to wood cost, it will be useful. in team games, it does not change much.

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Yes but people pay to create them, and a high gold price, which represents well the mercenary nature of the unit.
Cuman mercenaries is a very weird tech instead: the Cuman player PAYS for everyone else, even more gold than the Kipchak regular cost :dizzy_face:

Side note: condottiero plural is condottieri, condos are apartments.


I really liked the ptrevoius dudes proposal.

  1. Make the kipchsk mercenaries a special version that is always cuman lvl FU, and not affect by players techs, since they are mercenaries you hire them with the equipment already, instead of providing it for them. Makes it useful for allies that don’t have archer upgrades. Or cumans that go meele cav but want a upgraded raiding squad of kipchacks.

  2. Each existing castles at the point of research gives +5 creatable merc. kipchacks,
    FUrther Each new created castle afterwards adds another 5 creatable,
    This removes the one time character of the tech, since more castles mean more mercs.

  3. Merc kipchsps not free, instead they are trained at the regular gold cost but 0 wood cost.

In short,
-make merc kipchacks always FU (buff)
-Increase the amount of creatable units to 10 + 5* #castles (including future castles) (buff)
-let the unit cost gold to train, but no wood cost (nerf for the FU stats and increased number)

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Making it FU would be a nerf for some civs that already have strong horse archers (real FU since Cumans lack bracer) let alone civs with unique techs that make horse archers stronger (Magyars Turks Tatars…). By the same logic of mercenaries already bringing their own equipment, wouldn’t condottieri have to follow the same model ?

If your allies have to pay for their kipchaks, I don’t think there should be a build limit. The tech itself would become weak if there is a limit.

I wouldn’t like to make its new version complex. It’s better keep simple and useful.

Perhaps each existing allies’ castle spawn 8 Kipchaks, the new castle build after this tech hitting would spawn 8 Kipchaks too. The number of spawning Kipchaks could be adjusted.

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The strange thing here is that many civs get superior kipchaks. I’d take any bracer civ over Cumans tech tree. Arguably a Magyar ally gets the best kipchaks because they have bracer and a unique tech that’s effectively another bracer. I don’t enjoy when a civ cannot even fully upgrade their unique unit, and providing the fully upgraded (or more than FU) version to allies only is just salt in the wound.

Personally I’m not a fan of any of the one time boosts for allies. They’re not very helpful in long games, and they’re almost useless in 1v1. Paper money is probably the biggest offender, but Cuman Mercenaries is a pretty bland UT as well. I like the idea of unlocking them as a trainable unit like the Genitours, but that still leaves the Cuman player with no lasting benefit .

Perhaps the dev could make the allies’ elite Kipchaks different from the regular one.

Similar to the fortress of the scenario editor which is unaffected by the fletching and its subsequent upgrades. This kind of Kipchaks may be the another unit, share the same looks and data with the Cumans player’s Kipchaks, but do not be benefitted by any civ bonus and tech more.

If this way of design could be available, the Italian Condottiero maybe fit it.

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