Cumans buff ideas

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
#1

After a gentleman released the stats after LotW, it has been found that they are consistently bottom tier. The devs have said that balance means winrate between 45 and 55%. However, for practical purposes, they apply 47 to 53% since they are nerfing 54% Franks and buffing 46% Saracens.

  1. Onto the Cumans now, their bonuses of TC and SW in Feudal is a big investment and quite situational.

  2. The extra speed bonus on Cavalry in Feudal and Imperial Age is nice and it saves 150F and 40 seconds in Castle Age. I consider this a decent bonus.

  3. The team bonus of extra health on palisades buys you more time. But on the contrary, the devs are nerfing walling every patch so this bonus is getting disproportionately affected by it.

  4. The Castle Age Unique tech is actually great, no complaints. Maybe one of the best in the game.

  5. What does the Imperial Age unique tech do for Cumans themselves? At max, it saves 600w and uses 650f. The wood saves can be converted to food for a better deal, but for that specific issue Cumans also have Crop Rotation.

Suggestions:

  1. Cuman Feudal TC: exists as a separate building in Feudal Age, so that there are 2 TCs, so that Cumans don’t get punished for the first TC also. 2nd Feudal TC is created in normal time, but it creates 3 villagers for a normal TC’s 5 (works 40% slower). In Castle Age, it becomes normal TC again.

  2. Cuman Mercenaries costs 300F 300W. It gives 10 Elite Kipchaks to all players starring in Castle Age. These Elite Kipchaks cost 60G to create (hence mercenaries). For the Cuman player themselves, these Mercenaries are free.

  3. Free Elite Skirmisher upgrade.

1 Like
#2

I think that’s a decent idea. It punishes the vil idle time less, but also curbs the boom so it wont be too oppressive.

This is a huge buff for cumans. I don’t think i like it. And a huge nerf for allied games where allies already hardly use it.

Cumans have fast paladins, Siege ram, FU halb and the kipchak really isn’t that bad, so imo cumans don’t need a buff there, especially if you’re buffing their feudal survival anyway., which is definitely neeeded

Not a bad idea, but does it really help them? I think siege is more of the issue. Scorps and mangos demolish feudal age units.

In the other thread i was thinking maybe something like 15% higher base speed for rams? Either way something to help counter siege( this at least helps v scorps) or aid feudal aggression.

#3

How exactly? At most 10 units, for 300W 300F. There are UTs and even some Civ bonuses which provide great value.

#4

As per the stats, they are weak against archer civs. So before they get the mass of Knights rolling, they have something to counter archers. It is a long, expensive and worthy upgrade. But as a unit, Elite Skirmishers are weak against most units.

#5

Isn’t that more like a nerf rather than a buff?

#6

The main problem right now is the TC construction. It takes exactly the same time as building 3 donjons. Villagers are vulnerable to rushes, especially archer rushes.

After the TC is built, it provides a great defence against every feudal age unit (except Cuman Rams) and most Castle Age units.

#7

I suggest:

1-Give them bracer
2-make their speed bonus +5% feudal, +10% castle, so in castle they will have 15% faster mounted units.
3-make their 2nd TC completely a normal TC with normal buiding time or reduce it’s building time at least.
4-remove their stupid UT (Mercenaries) and give them something better

1 Like
#8

and give Elite Kipchaks 0 Frame Delay.

1 Like
#9

they tried this. and had to nerf it.

2 Likes
#10

I like that Idea, but maybe a bit different: Every TC after the first (build in normal Time) will instantly spawn about 2-3 vills and work with about 50 % workrate from that on. (Exact numbers should be evaluated via testing).

This would make the seond TC a viable play in arabia (if well defended) and not that OP as it can be in closed maps right now. It would also solve some problems in certain maps like budaest, where the current bonus has no effect and therefor cumans are even worse there.

#11

i suggested this in the other thread

The numbers can be tweaked. For example: rams can garrison 1 more unit, capped rams 2 more ones and siege rams 3 more
This partially compensates for the lack of siege engineers regarding damage to buildings, but enhances rams speed and damage to other siege. Also, cumans obtain a powerful unit for late game, while also buffing their feudal or castle ram rush a bit.

2 Likes
#12

If they modify work rate of villagers, they will need to duplicate all the villagers, which is a tedious task.

2 Likes
#13

I highly doubt that this will be implemented. The Kipchak is like Leitis of Cavalry Archers, higher damage output and lower cost, but lacking on the most important property. Pierce armor for Leitis and Range for Kipchaks. Attack on Kipchaks isn’t a problem, they can just change the numer of arrows.

1 Like
#14

I think they should make the building time of second TC dependent on villager number. Like 270 sec minus 5 sec for every villager created in the feudal age.

#15

“Had” might be a strong Word, according yo aoestats.io their Best winrate is lower than those of Franks, mayans, celts.

52% in +1600 Elo doesnt sound broken to me.
Maybe it could be half the penalty they have now

They did the same to sicilian, they gave them a OP bonus to their tc in nomád maps, and them overnerfed them to useless

1 Like
#16

How about siege Workshops are 50% cheaper.

This is to push them more into using their ram bonus. Currently feudal age rams are so expensive to get nobody even bothers.

4 Likes
#17

Expensive and also easy to destroy even with villagers.

2 Likes
#18

Which immediately makes me think about giving them melee armour. Teutons have it as a UT, cumans could have it as a civ bonus. Even just +1 melee armour might go a long way.

But i like this as well

On top of that, when the tc had normal build time, it didn’t have the slower work rate.

So by reducing the build time on that tc, but making it work slower in feudal. Still puts them ata disadvantage vs their old form

Also i think the bigger issue in the past was TGs and closed maps.

#19

Even at present they are decent on Team Games (slightly more than 50% win rate). On closed maps, the TC in Feudal Age is guaranteed and provides a great economic advantage.

The middle ground is what I suggested. It ensures that the 2nd TC is built in most situations/maps and it also isn’t as strong.

As a Pocket position, Cumans are guaranteed to have the 2nd TC in Feudal Age, so this can also be a nerf on their team games, making them balanced.

#20

What?! 50% cheaper siege?! Noway man this is sick and broken, and the advantage of Cumans siege in feudal is not that they have it, but the capped rams upgrade in castle. To be honest i don’t think the siege workshop in feudal are worthy to any civ