Last game of the Villese - Vinchester series, around 4:57 hours. 136 military vs 20 because the burgundian player clicked one tech. Kinda self-explanatory
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10 Likes
Absolute disaster, Imagine losing a 2-2 series because of this tech. I’d be tilting
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Min? Hour?
Other than I agree that is just a stupid design, and could we add the First crusade tech?
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Edited, was my fault. Around 4:57
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Tech is fine. Combination of Burgundian eco and tech is not fine, but there are worse things in this game, by far.
4 Likes
The tech isn’t fine, even with the upcoming nerfs, that won’t do anything, cmon flemish rev was already criticized before the Burgundians buff
3 Likes
Some people find it annoying, or dislike the mechanism, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with the idea. it’s just that the burg eco is a tad bit too good after the cost reduction to eco techs was added.
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These new civs are just gimmicks. No one really ask for these gimmick civs. I hope the next 2 civs are much better and dont include these strange gimmicks. These gimmicks are really hard to balance. They end up overpowered or useless.
5 Likes
Cmon, paying a price to get up to 200 soldiers instantly and either completely win just by that or pay for your worst doom? is that good design?
2 Likes
I have never been against high risk high reward strategies, so the tech itself does not bother me. I have had people use against me. First few times I lost to it, because it was new and didn’t know how to prepare for it. Nowadays it’s a lot less effective already, just because its now easier to anticipate it., so the recent times, I’ve been doing well against it. I’ve also used the strategy myself a few times, quite funny, somehow refreshingly different from the usual 
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I suggest to delete the Burgundians from the game, it will be AWESOME.
3 Likes
Burgundians could be balanced, if the earlier access to eco tech is gone (would be pretty imba for EW lol) and flemish revolution reworked (Villagers can be turned into flemish rev rather than turning all, you pay for every villager to get transformed).
And Coustilier more expensive (like 75f at least), -1PA but faster moving at 1.4
I personally would like to update Burgundian eco bonuses something like that: if you researching feudal age eco upgrade in dark age - you have to pay full price, but if you are researching feudal age eco tech in feudal age - you get -50% food discount applied.
As for Flemish Revolution. IMHO, I see no problem with tech itself. The problem are Flemish Militia who are basically a “Champion with bonus damage against cavalry”. Flemish Revolution should change Villagers to Pikeman-like unit - poor attack, dies to archers and infantry, but can fight cavalry. Increasing the price of technology is bad idea.
people would just never get the eco techs until the correct age.
4 Likes
Indeed; their eco is OP and need a nerf.
The problem is deeper than that. Flemish rev is too strong because of the combined power of early echo techs costing 50% less food, stable discounts, farm generating gold, relics generating food, and cheap “good vs everything fast” militia. I understand devs wanted to implement the high risk factor to make the game more interesting, there is nothing wrong with that. When the civ was released, players didn’t know how to use it effectively and thought it was too weak (I include myself here), but now it’s pretty clear that wasn’t the case. They just needed to make the early eco techs a little bit cheaper and nothing else at that time. The current buff is too much. The original idea was to lose your eco in exchange of emergency troops, but now people can just pump out military AND have eco solid enough recover fast. In other words, flemish rev tech itself is not the problem.
Imo the changes should be something like this: early eco techs cost -40% food, stable techs 40% cheaper, remove farms generating gold from vineyards, relics generate 20 food per minute like before.
Keep the militia bonuses as they are, including their +2 against buildings. That was good.
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That won’t nerf Burgundians properly to be honest
Exactly! I mean people were not complaining about this tech until the last big buff with 50% discount in eco with being able to research age before. What need a real nerf is the Burgundians eco more than anything.
I think that the problem is the flemish militia is too strong. It should be weaker than a champion and any bonus damage (buildings and cavarly).
Early eco techs cost -35% food, stable techs 35% cheaper, remove farms generating gold from vineyards, relics generate 20 food per minute like before, and flemish rev costs 950F 550G.
Thoughts? Can’t really nerf them more than that if we want to keep them in the top 15.