I mean from the Castle Age onwards, in the Imperial Age it stands out even more.
How so? The new Sultan’s Tower Elephant isn’t terribly OP. It’s way too slow to produce.
With 3 scholars garrisoned it’s only 90 seconds and costs no resources. Not to mention that all the elephants are OP now once fully upgraded.
Delhi suffered 2 major major nerfs in feudal: palisade wall nerfs and combat monk healing nerf. IMO, delhi fast castle is only viable vs covs that are going for straight eco (abbasid and maybe rus) and fast castle timings that would be countered by fc delhi fc (english fc, hre fast castle, mali fc*); so i say all that to say 8 times out of 10 delhi will have to play standard into castle age.
However WAR ELEPHANTS are improved!!! And compound of the defender is an even better landmark than before. House of Learning has potential but is also bugged…
Tower Elephants do not return to pre nerf OP-status until late imp howdah upgrade which means? Are they even OP at all by that point?
Delhi is better; not OP imp late game…but super duper late game when resources are effectively infinite a wall of 16+ boys (war elephants with a sprinkle of HC tower elephants) with massive TOV HC with zeal and springalds…gg?
Yes! Someone else has spotted the issues!! There are some major issues, but I don’t think people are pointing them out, they’re just focusing on the more played factions.
I just played a 3v3 Delhi elephants with 30 healers and it was unstoppable and ended the game on its own. 20 crossbows vs 1 healer and it kept getting healed before the next volley, no dent to that army was possible.
- Put a limit on the number of scholars to 6.
- increase research speed slightly or reduce cost of scholars, but keep them limited.
- slow down the elephants - gives time to wear them down and reduce the range or attack on the archer elephants.
I like the game and do enjoy it, but it’s so unbalanced that it’s putting me off from the game…
At the moment players need to avoid certain situations or the game is over and theres nothing you can do to stop it. Delhi with invincible healer numbers; HRE accumulating bonuses; or surviving Chinese siege build up. I get wanting to give unique stuff from each faction and different play styles, but each faction should be able to defeat each other (no matter which age), even if it’s slightly more difficult but not unstoppable. At the moment it’s rock, paper, scissors with factions and you have a narrow window before it’s over.
I really doubt that you said elephants with 30 healers being unstoppable, did you use handcannoneers with spears? These should make unlimited number of elephants useless because they one shot an elephant.
The booming capabilities of Delhi as well as Abbasid look too ridiculous.
This would completely change how the free research techs works. And this would inevitably be worse balance than when delhi only needed 9 scholars to get standard timings on all techs. ALL TECHS.
Elephants (both kinds) are ALREADY the slowest bio units in the game? How you envision a likely low level game that likely went into the late 40, probably 50+ min late game; ended up with “OP” COMBO… should dedicated whar devs do for balance that is NOSTLY CENTERED AROUND 1v1? Where MOST games are resolved by 30min??? Is baffling…
Tower elephants have the potential to return to their PREP nerf state of OPness but this time that OPness is achieved in LATE IMP… so is that really unbalanced???
The only thing I can really see as a balance issue with the PUP Delhi is the buff to the Compound of the Defender landmark with the combination of cheaper stone for ALL buildings and extremely faster ‘Village Fortress’ technology timing; allowing Delhi to boom like crazy as soon as they reach the Castle Age.
The elephant buffs were definitely needed and they feel like they are actually at a pretty good spot with the PUP stats, especially making the War Elephant not completely worthless. With the change to how religious units now heal much slower while in combat, I don’t think they are as OP as some people describe them to be.
I’m not sure Delhi would be so OP even after the last PUP for a couple of reasons:
- scholars’ healing have been nerfed: of course you can kick them out of mosques and drive them on the battlefield, but this means they’re no longer boosting techs in your base and it seems almost an all-in
- war elephants and tower elephants have been REALLY nerfed in their hp but not so much in their costs, so they are not a real viable option. It’s true that elite tower elephants can be produced in 90 seconds each, but it will be always ONE at a time, easily counterable with a bunch of hand-cannoneers and a little micro. Plus, I think Elite elephants are a good way to balance the huge disadvantage of Imperial Age Delhi, where techs are so damn slow to develope: at least you can buy some time and not die after a mass spears/maa attack.
- during last patches there has been a HUGE indirect nerf for Delhi since all tech costs in feudal and castle ages were reduced. Since for all the other civs it became easier to get most of economical techs, I feel appropriate at least some kind of nudge to speed up Delhi technologies, such as Compound of the Defender keep upgrades.
I really hope devs won’t nerf Delhi anymore, since has been nerfed for all the last months before this PUP.
I don’t want to pretend that I’m unbiased in this regard as Delhi is my main civ, but people, more often than not, shout “nerf” the first time they get beaten by something they didn’t immediately know how to counter.
Right now, elephants are non-existent in multiplayer matches, Delhi’s imperial is worthless, and most of their landmarks are jokes!
Now that the least played civ finally receives some buffs to those areas after such a long time, people’s first instinct is to complain about how OP they are!
This is certainly not something that can be determined from the PUP alone. It needs more data and more games.
Nawz my boy! There are certain things you only need to play a few times and/or look on paper to know are OP. Example the ###### ## thing was discovered super duper early even though it wasn’t made popular until much later. Plus with Delhi both Demuslim and Beastyqt have spoken glowingly of the new Delhi were Demuslim even fears it might be too/super good.
In the matches that Beasty showcased playing as the Delhi, it was clear that his success was because of the OPness of the elephants and it had nothing to do with his insane micro, pulling elephants back at 10% hp with near-perfect precision! I’ve seen those videos. They speak well of the new Delhi changes. Some fear it might be too good. None of them have outright come out to say they are OP the way this thread is asserting! Maybe they need some tweaking, maybe not.
I don’t want a nerf… I’m a Delhi main
" * Mosques
- Garrison slots increased from 3 to 5.
- Dome of Faith now acts as a Mosque."
Poggers. This makes the DOF feudal landmark so so strong.
- Cost reduced from 150 to 130.
Sultan’s Tower Elephant should be renamed to Handcannoneer/Handcannon Elephant
Garrison slots would reduce the number of mosques you need to build, but I suspect that the end result would be that players would sometimes go for two mosques instead of 3 in castle age (and 10 garrisoned scholars instead of 9). Only sometimes because Delhi may want to build an additional mosque to hurry up the mosque techs. Feudal age would still be two mosques (including Dome of the Faith) - one for sanctity and one for scholar production, though you wouldn’t need to build an additional mosque to garrison the 4th scholar. I suspect that Dome of the Faith will still be used for scholar production, which in practice would mean little change - the change would be most beneficial on water maps where you’d want a mosque connected to the docks and one to the main base. Dome of the Faith acting as a mosque would help facilitate that.
So the changes to Dome of the Faith don’t sound too strong to me. You’d mainly need to build fewer mosques for research benefits, but you’re still only looking at 100, maybe 200 wood savings (significant that early on, but not broken)
I don’t follow what you’re saying? If you DOF, you only need 1 mosque in feudal bc the only thing you NEED teched asap that would NOT already completed by feudal is sanctity? Secondly DOF IS now a mosque so That mean you can research mosque techs AND you should be able to house relics in it (good luck to enemy destroying that safely placed landmark with 3 relics inside). Also if you go age 3 with compound of the defender then you dont need a satellite mosque on your keep since all your keep techs are in the compound.
Also with the reduction of scholar costs this SHOULD mean DOF scholars cost 78g (remember when 75g scholars were OP??).
IT’S about the sheer synergy of DOF BO being highly optimized given this series of changes.
The techs that you have upon reaching feudal is build order dependent. If the “second” mosque wasn’t built until late dark age or early feudal age then none of those dark age techs would be in (which might be relevant if you went for an early barracks). And while Dome of the Faith will be able to research techs, doing so means giving up on the cheaper scholars (and if you’re going to do that, then you may as well have gone Tower of Victory).
Being able to House relics in the Dome of the Faith is nice, but relics generally aren’t housed in vulnerable mosques anyways (so nice convenient buff, but not game-changing).
So what I’m basically saying is that the buffs to Dome of the Faith are convenient, but don’t add much to the landmarks power (except on water maps where the docks might be too far away from your base to easily provide the research buff to both docks and base).
I’m still not certain how the scholar reduction cost will affect the DOF in practice. The DOF scholars should cost less overall, but should also provide less total savings (so more power in isolation, but less relative benefit). I don’t think that the cheaper scholars was a needed change though, since the landmark/elephant changes buffed Delhi Castle and Imperial.
No decent level delhi player delays their first mosque until age up… so absolutely efficient production (the only dark age mosque tech that matters) will be researched. Also you dont need a constant stream of scholars being queued unless you’re losing them. Next the discount on scholars doesnt matter by the time you catch 2 or more sacred sites, you’ll be swimming in gold; what’s 130g vs 78g when you got 450gpm?
Another interesting idea is IFF you skip the first mosque and JUST build DOF? Do you still get a free scholar?