Devs Please fix the Elephant Archers once and for all

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

Ive read many many posts on this major issue since many years, and decided to finally speak up.

I cant beleive the devs havent fixed this massively unusable UU already. It has basically remained untweaked since african kingdoms (and look at Hera’s latest video on UU tiers).

They buffed the Tarkans, Axemen, Berserks, War Wagons, Battle eles, Condos, Konniks, Turtles etc many times (regardless of if the civ was strong or not) AND gave them actual competitive viability but never even showed interest in fixing EAs.

It pains me to see such a forgotten unit that is still passed as a UU, no civilization deserves this.

Hence I propose EA should get these changes with no changes to their current stats/price:

I DONT EXPECT EVERY ONE TO LIKE THE EXACT CHANGES I PROPOSE , we just need to MAKE some BIG CHANGE HAPPEN to EA in next patch!(Not just +1 range, more fire rate etc, the unit must HAVE A real PURPOSE)

THE STATUS QUO HAS REMAINED FOR TOO LONG

  1. Two archers on the back instead of one (like the african hero in the editor), only one fires commanded unit and other auto-targets closest unit. Because EA does less damage than a SINGLE crossbow and costs 2.6 TIMES (not incl upgrade/castle cost and time)

  2. Can garrison 2(3 for elite) foot units each, with foot archer units(incl HCs) adding max two more arrows based on total attack of units inside.
    While ofcourse not a stat buff and difficult to micro, it allows unique strategies like defending towns with elephant towers! and hopping in monks as scouts close in and convert on their retreat!!

This would make them truly unique(compared to just increasing fire rate) and give EA a role in imperial/trash wars, allowing a few skirms/HC/monks to shelter themselves mid battle if faced with a mass of counters/cavalry.

PLUS it wont allow any higher levels of focus firing (half the arrows auto target) while fixing the excruciatingly low damage output.

My sentiment about these two ideas are already being echoed(although not yet as both changes together) by a LOT OF people on the aoe site forum now.

Considering EAs still die like flies to halbs and skirms after these changes, EAs will function as temporary meatshields for any ranged army that also does some spray damage at the start of a battle/a defense.

Also there is no increase to range!! So it can be in the frontlines!

I hereby plead all to consider that making this unit a tower/archer hybrid with higher damage output is unlikely to make the Indians OP, and bring unique battle strategies in the game. Even if that happens, its price can be increased further(but its UNIQUENESS/USABILITY should not be lost)

4 Likes
2

It’s sad but not being able to focus fire would make the unit not much better that it is right now.

The problem imo is that it adds a lot of micro for a result that isn’t much better than just recreating these units as soon as you lose them. I guess this concept could work if the ele archer is made cheaper, so that it’s at least cost effective to use it that way, and that it has a lot of garrison space, to avoid making it not pop efficient enough (because more units might be better than being able to shelter, say 5 of them at a time)

3

i really really like the idea of garrisoning units in elephant archers. that would make them fill a role similar to both towers and rams at the same time. if they sorta expanded on that role, they surely could see some play. great start for rebalancing them!

2 Likes
4

So i am curious to what are your plans for making this UU a viable option rather than a running meme?

I do hope the devs have at least some plans of justifying the existence of EAs by making them usable.

5

i also think, they should get a bit of archer and cavarcher armor, certainly not negative cavarcher armor like they have now. There is no reason, they should be this weak to skirms maybe even add some cavalry and war elephant armor too, so to make them less weak against halbs. simply increasing the HP could also work, i just think, they’re supposed to be tanky in theory, but they arent really all that tanky in practice

2 Likes
6

I think having elephants shoot a bunch of arrows instead of just one would suffice as a buff. They would offer some support for camels by killing enemy halbs (maybe also add a small damage bonus against them?).

1 Like
8

As we all know, elephant archers are a pretty terrible unit. As the may patch is coming on road, how to improve this unit is a important question. What do you think and how to improve this unit? Post your comments!

1 Like
9

I cant beleive the devs havent fixed this massively unusable UU already. It has basically remained untweaked since african kingdoms (and look at How Viper AND hera have given this LAST SPOT in UU tierlist).

They buffed the Tarkans, Axemen, Berserks, War Wagons, Battle eles, Condos, Konniks, Turtles, Leitis, Keshiks etc many times (regardless of if the civ was strong or not) AND gave them actual competitive viability but never even showed interest in fixing EAs.

It pains me to see such a forgotten unit that is still passed as a UU, no civilization deserves this.

Hence I propose EA should get these changes with no changes to their current stats/price:

I DONT EXPECT EVERY ONE TO LIKE THE EXACT CHANGES I PROPOSE , we just need to MAKE some BIG CHANGE HAPPEN to EA in next patch!(Not just +1 range, more fire rate etc, the unit must HAVE A real PURPOSE)

THE STATUS QUO HAS REMAINED FOR TOO LONG

  1. Two archers on the back instead of one (like the african hero in the editor), only one fires commanded unit and other auto-targets closest unit. Because EA does less damage than a SINGLE crossbow and costs 2.6 TIMES (not incl upgrade/castle cost and time)
  2. Can garrison 2(3 for elite) foot units each, with foot archer units(incl HCs) adding max two more arrows based on total attack of units inside.
    While ofcourse not a stat buff and difficult to micro, it allows unique strategies like defending towns with elephant towers! and hopping in monks as scouts close in and convert on their retreat!!

This would make them truly unique(compared to just increasing fire rate) and give EA a role in imperial/trash wars, allowing a few skirms/HC/monks to shelter themselves mid battle if faced with a mass of counters/cavalry.

PLUS it wont allow any higher levels of focus firing (half the arrows auto target) while fixing the excruciatingly low damage output.

My sentiment about these two ideas are already being echoed(although not yet as both changes together) by a LOT OF people on the aoe site forum now.

Considering EAs still die like flies to halbs and skirms after these changes, EAs will function as temporary meatshields for any ranged army that also does some spray damage at the start of a battle/a defense.

Also there is no increase to range!! So it can be in the frontlines!

I hereby plead all to consider that making this unit a tower/archer hybrid with higher damage output is unlikely to make the Indians OP, and bring unique battle strategies in the game. Even if that happens, its price can be increased further(but its UNIQUENESS/USABILITY should not be lost)

1 Like
10

You should stop your exaggeration. The elephant archer has been changed just as many times as some of those units on your list (tarkan, war wagon, keshik) and more the leitis.

As for fixing the elephant archer. Increase speed to 0.9 Increase its attack speed to 2.1 reduce its cost to 90/70 and cut its elite upgrade cost in half (500 food and 400g)

1 Like
11

I can repost my suggestions

I would try to give a contribution on rare units. In particular elephants, I mean, WE and EA.

The problem why you do not see them is that they are slow and expensive. But they are powerful, and it is needed for balance that I cannot attack my enemies with 40+ EAs.

What about lowering a lot the cost of these UU while increasing a lot their TT?

In practice I think Indians will always add EA if they are very cheap, but you will see just few of them because they are too slow to be trained. Similar Persians.

So you will see always few WE/EA, maybe 3-4 at most in the same battle, but you see them in several games.

Hystorically, I guess that 50% army of elephants was also very rare… so it makes sense to me… just a different mechanics…

You can even limit the number of WE/EA you can have in the same time as in AoM.

This also differentiates roles of battle and war elephants.

1 Like
12

Laughs in

The African Kingdoms [image]Edit

  • Elephant Archers now cost 100F/80G. Still Useless
  • The upgrade to Elite Elephant Archer now costs 1000F/800G. Still Useless
  • Elephant Archers now have 280 HP (330 for Elite). Still Useless
  • Elephant Archers now have 3 pierce armor. Still Useless
  • Indians: Get Ring Archer Armor. Still Useless

Rise of the Rajas [image]Edit

  • With patch 5.8, Elephant Archers now have 0 archer and -2 cavalry archer armor. Even MORE Useless
    .
    .

7 DAMNED YEARS.
The Indians should be given ONAGER ELEPHANT as UU now as RETRIBUTION

Onager Elephant / Elite Onager Elephant
Cost 200F 150G
HP: 480/650 , Attack: 75/95, Speed 0.85/0.95
A/PA : 2+2/4+2 ,3+3/5+4
Range: 8/9+1, RoF: 4 seconds
Blast Radius: 3.5/4.5 (problem?)
image
This is still weak compared to how much retribution is required.

13

I do not think you know what this word means.
EAs are not useless, they are walking Towers, and should be expensive because of it.

1 Like
14

Yeah? Now go show everyone how many times the 4 units I listed were changed
Throwing axeman 2 times
Tarkan 2 times
Keshik 2 times
War wagon 2 times
Leitis 1 time
Battle elephants 1 time with various civ specific changes to bonuses.
Konnik 1 time
Turtle ship 2 times.

So literally the only unit changed more then the elephant archer was the condo.

So again. Like I said, maybe you should watch your exaggeration.

2 Likes
15

Tarkan 2 times → both huge buffs
Keshik 2 times → both huge buffs
War wagon 2 times → both huge buffs
Leitis 1 time → huge buff
Battle elephants 1 time with various civ specific changes to bonuses. → big buffs
Konnik 1 time → big buffs
Turtle ship 2 times. → both buffs

Meanwhile, Utterly Useless F-tier crap EA : Still waiting to be redeemed by being replaced by Siege Onager Elephants
image

16

And? Huns are a mediocre civ with tarkans buffed and balanced.
Tatars are now a solid balanced civ after the keshik buff.
Koreans still aren’t a good civ and Turtle ships are terrible.
Lithuanians are now a balanced civ after the buff.
Bulgarians are now a good balanced civ after the buff.

Elephant archer might be crap but indians are still a good, balanced civ despite that. (And you’ll notice I proposed some buffs for it anyways)

1 Like
17

You know what, Elephant Monks will be better replacement

Elephant Monk
Cost 150F 100G
HP: 480/680 -> 720/1020 after sanctity (problem?) , Speed 0.85/0.95 -> +21% after upgrades (problem?)
Range : 10+3 (problem?)
A/PA : 2+2/4+2 ,3+3/5+4 (problem?)

But what the devs end up giving Indians is something AMAZING like this:

Elephant Villager
Cost 200F
HP: 250/300, Speed 0.7/0.8
Attack : 3
A/PA : 0+1/3+2

Oh and BTW, it can’t build buildings, farm, or mine. Savvy?

18

Personally I think lowering their cost by 20f 20g would be great. Maybe add 0. 1 to their speed as well. Then at least they can catch up with other archers and will act a similar role to ballista elephants (maybe?)

1 Like
19

lowering their cost by 20f 20g would be great. Maybe add 0. 1 to their speed

That and some more is required to make this Utterly Useless F-tier crap EA worth of any consideration.

Or as the devs know best, let’s replace them by the Elephant Skirmisher!! They will be more useful than the current Utterly Useless F-tier crap EA !!!

Elephant Skirmisher
Cost 200F 50W
HP: 230/300 , Attack: 2/3, Speed 0.7/0.75
A/PA : 0+3/3+4
Range: 3/4, RoF: 5 seconds
Armor Classes: War Elephant, Cavalry Archer, Archer, UU, Cavalry, Mameluke, Camel and many more!!

WOW such an amazing unit, definetly more useful than Elephant Archers for the +3 bonus against foot archers.

20

Just stop.

I have one idea, what i also scribe few times. Simple idea.
Give them bonus against siege. Like +3. This will give them role, being protectors for another ranged units with ability of killing siege. Maybe also bump their HP, to tank more.

5 Likes
21

Why? Won’t the proposed Elephant Skirmishers be better at EA’s job(countering archers) than the current useless EA’s?

Even with the Mameluke and Camel Armor classes added on to them for good measure

#MakeElephantArchersElephantSkirmishers
#ElephantVillagers>>>>ElephantSkirmishers>>>>ElephantArchers