DEVS Plz READ, Abbasid PUP Suggestions - Changes Culture Wing/ Military Wing

Hi there,

I created another Post because my previous Post Was too Long and I will summarize here just so its easier to follow

Military Wing SUggestions…

Perhaps er give us the opportunity to get additional units later on… even if not for free… just discounted and produced instantly…

The Military wing can make the house of wisdom for example work like the Kremlin and Provide 1 Ticket every 90 seconds which I hope is balanced where you can Pick either say… 2 spear/2 archers and instantly produce at at a Discount … say 35% for example… just a random number…

or 2 Camel Riders once every 90 seconds at 35% Discount
or 2 Camel Archers once every 90 seconds at 35% Discount
or 3 Hand Cannoners once every 90 seconds at 35% Discount…

Maybe 90 seconds is OP… then thats ifne make it … 105 seconds… or 120…seconds… and should act like a ticket and produce the units above instantly at any age

But the Military Wing Ideally Needs to have some usefulness in Fedual Age Apart from Boot Camp… and with this Change… The House of Widsom willl work somewhat like the Farimba Garrison and Somewhat like the Kremlin whichin terms of tickets…

So if you play long fedual… you are still benefting from the Military Wing… and you can also save these tickets for Castle/ Imperial… so every 10 minutes even if you save the tickets @ 120 seconds per ticket you’ll have like 5 tickets which can come in CLUTCH

Culture Wing Suggestions

  • Remove the Imperial Age Imam Tech and Take it to the Monastry in Castle Age…so atleast it can be EVER Used… not ONCE has any PRO or CASUAL Player Used it… and Perhaps Reduce its cost so it can actually be a straregy to fast Castle into Imams?

  • Provide a Replacement Unique Culture Wing tech that enables Abbasids to Build a 3rd Landmark…so it really helps them be a CIV that isnt tied down to their base or their INitial Landmarks which are usually RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER… Now what this 3rd Landmark does … here is my thought…


  1. Perhaps it could allow you to construct 3rd Abbasid monuments /landmark and that allows to recruit a Caliph with a limit of 1

He spawns for Free but the Building itself (3rd Landmark) would be expensive to build… say 200 Wood and 200 Gold… or Give him a Cost that justifies having him because you still have to reseach this in the Imperial Age anyway from the House of Widsom…

That Caliph (on Horseback) that Provides an Economic and Military Advantage…

once on the Field Can Unlock a 4th Golden Age or something… cant think of anything special but maybe all villagers add tax value in resources when working (not IDLE) like say 1 Farmers Provide +1 Food every 15-seconds… Gold Miners Provide +1 Gold every 15 seconds… Wood Cutters Provide +1 Wood evrey 15 seconds… Stone Miners Provide 1 Stone every 15 Seconds…

which might sound OP … but it’s a huge investment to DO a Research… then build a 3rd Landmark to get the Caliph… he can have like 200 HP… 3 armour each but no attack… and respawns once every 90 seconds when killed

Ideally would be nice if he can provide a Military AURA for Units/Buildings that are within the House of Wisdoms Influence to recieve -10% Damage … so they can Defend the Abbasid Dynasty… maybe another bonus can be added when he is on the offensive… but ONE Econmic Bonus and ONE Military Advantage to Having him atleast…

I don’t know …I havent thought this through… but it would really add some depth and thought into Late Imperial Culture WIng (which makes sense I hope)

But Really I hope someone considers this,


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Caliph, well i will see some ottomans comment here XD, but yeah, honestly, caliphate during abbasid period feels more unifying and organized than ottomans one.

Thanks for reading just a comment :stuck_out_tongue:

Caliphs were for Abbasids…

Sultans were for Ottmans

Different names to leaders… Like King for Euro Civs and Khan for Monogols

You know what? Ottomans declare caliphate for themselves after Selim 1 conquering Mamluks in egypt and Hejaz in now western Saudi Arabia, and right then the abbasid caliphate was already defeated by mongols, BTW caliph for muslims refer to (the leader of all of muslims world) and BTW while almost every muslims agree to call alla abbasids leaders as calipha, same thing cannot be said about ottomans sultans.

Sultans were local rulers - kings or emperors - they had one domain that they had authority over. Caliphs were the guys that had authority over every muslim nation, local or not. Totally diff roles, my guy.

Alright cool… Point Taken…Doeswegotta and Hisoverign,

Regardless… the goal of this discussion is to add some depth to the culture wing by removing the Imperial Age Tech and adding some Depth and Strategy…whether a Caliph…a King…a Sultan…a General…a Leader the naming changes little and I hope someone considers this Idea

And / Or Atleast do something with it and Take the Culture Wing Prostheylization tech… Move it to the Monastry in Castle Age… Reduce its cost and Research time… and Provide a different Tech that ACTUALLY Makes More Sense as an Imperial Age Culture Wing Option,

I have some suggestion (a bit daydreaming)

Economy wing: make HoW a resource drop off building
Military Wing: those ticket thingy is the coolest suggestion i ever see on the forum LOL
Trade Wing: Make it a trade destination (done)
Culture Wing: can train imam but at slower rate, or use that ticket thing to train imam, can hold 5 relics

HoW tech
Trade Wing

  1. Bazaar:very good, almost OP if exploited in TG
  2. Armored Caravan:decent
  3. Silk Road: Very Good

Economy Wing

  1. Fertile Crescent: don’t even ask LOL
  2. Agriculture: decent
  3. Improved Processing: extremely good, 40% the power of imperial official but unlimited is just very good

Military Wing
1.Boot Camp : yeah, maybe a little useless? Combined with spearman or ghulam’s HP maybe it will be good tho? And those ticket thing will absolutely help
2. Composite bow: mehter archer but in castle? I don’t know what the dev’s intention, maybe need a rework?
3. Camel Support: very good, i love to combo those camel with my yuan palace guard, a mobile but tanky army

Culture Wing

  1. PoK: very good early on, not so good later on, but a decent tech regardless
  2. Medical Centers: very good on sacred site, or when pushing.
  3. Proselytization: move them to castle age monastery, need a new tech. Maybe some Sacred Site or Relic Bonus, as it is in something culture related, maybe relic generate 50% more resource (also effect tithe barn) or each garrisoned relic improve gather rate, training rate, and research rate by 2.5%? It is very culture related

Come on dev, we need Abba to come out of this 4 TC booming strat

sorry but the discussion here reminded me of this:

(I want to be the caliphe instead of the caliphe)

I think abbasids are good, but I don’t think a full overhaul is needed, but adjustment could be good for them.

The Caliph isn’t a bad idea, but I rather have it reserved as something for another islamic civ perhaps?

Personally I’d like to see the military wing have Composite bow for feudal and bootcamp for Castle.

Culture wing should spawn an Imam, single conversion should be removed and just be standard unique ability for Abbasid imams. Would allow the Imams actually be aggressive in the early game aswell as using the imams to protect you from early raids. And since you only have a single of it in Feudal, it won’t get out of hand + mostly there to help heal up your very expensive camels.
Replace the Single-conversion imperial tech with Advanced medecine or something, allowing all abbasid buildings that is effected by the House of Wisdom influence to heal nearby units even in combat (similar to the keep tech but requires link to the House of Wisdom, which will be very nice if youre being based pushed)

Eco wing is fine as it is, so is trade.

Eco Wing and Trade Wing is fine as you said

The Culture wing and Military Wing surely need a bit of the tweak.

About caliph thing, there is only a few islamic dynasties that claim caliphate and only a few were recognized as “real caliph” as caliph is a ruler for all of the muslims world, it is very difficult to be recognized as one.

The most notable dynasties that claim caliphate but not recognized by most of the muslims kingdom of their time:

-Caliphate of Grenada in spain (mostly only iberian muslims recognize them)
-Fathimid Caliphate (only shiite muslims in egypt recognize them)

And there is only four that recognized worldwide by the muslims of their time:

-Rashidun Caliphate (not really a dynasty as each ruler is’nt the close family of the previous one, and span only a bit less than half a century)
-Umayyad Caliphate (only span a century and a bit more)
-Abbasid Caliphate (span 8 centuries, already in game, recognized by most of the muslims worlds and kingdoms at their time, even khawarizm and mamluks)
-Ottomans (Sultan Selim 1 claimed it for himself and his descendant after conquering hejaz and egypt, but some part of nejd and nowaday persia didn’t recognize him as caliph, span 8 centuries, already in game)

So if some civ will get caliph, it will be abbasid, but culture wing can be reworked without it, and maybe the appearance of caliph get killed or stomped by a bunch of troops may be a bit controversial, so i’m with you on that.

I prefer culture wing make HoW can train imam at slower rate, make HoW a relic drop off, and have imperial age tech changed to relic bonus/ monastery related/culture related bonus, as it will encourage a new playstyle eround FC to relic and ghulams

I like your suggestion about composite bow and boot camp changes place that a really nice move, i still think that ticket thing will a make feudal military wing an appealing option tho.

I think the Abbasids are already quite fun to play and hardly need any changes. The Ghulam thing is not clear to me, with the improvement of the camels it is enough.

Well i personally feel bored playing against abbasid, it is always that eco wing to multiple TC,

Well, I also see the military and trade sometimes.

Obviously, one of the identities of the civ is to do extra TC at some point with some exceptions due to having the “fresh food” upgrade on the TC.

I feel like yeah like you said Composite Bows is Better off brought to Fedual Age but then it kinda provides abbasids a real incentive to go full archers in Fedual when they Have Camel Archers (Assuming you do go into the Military wing in the first place)

Then Again… Boot Camp Doesn’t Help alot in Fedual and Barely Gives Spears an extra shot vs archers/ knights… its % Wise and really Pays Off in LATE Imperial with Elite Army Tactics which provides its Max Value… so maybe Having it in Fedual isnt all that good…

Unless they change it to a Flat +20 HP… which means more health in Fedual…,. Same Castle… Less Imperial? Probably Might Make their Spears Very Strong in Fedual because that Brings them to 90 HP Rather than Base 70 I think? and their archers will be Tanky LOL

I feel like composite bows should be made abit more expensive and add +1 attack for archers - if Left in Castle… because really in Castle Age archers become not so useful when your ecnomy becomes able to support Camel Archers and Crossbows…which are infitnely better Unless you are VS Spearman or Chinese Zhung Nu…

Otherwise… Moving it to Fedual will Help Abbasids Counter Chinese Zhung Nu and English so I feel like there is Merit to Moving it… but we’ll see if any DEV is even reading this LOL

I’ve had the idea that the Golden Age and the Wings should be tied in effect, and would reduce the cost of units.

Instead of Golden Age giving economy bonuses (which takes time to rack up and benefit from), they could do the inverse of instead cutting down costs of the active wing units. This would allow Abbasids to still mimic that economy by tapping into it immediately instead of building it up.

For example, Military would cut costs of military units, culture would reduce cost of imams, economy; villagers and trade do the same to traders.

I initially thought Tier 1 ; 10%, Tier 2; 15% and Tier 3 20% for all units would work. But, you could just as easily have each wing have different values. Culture wing, which reduces Imam costs could go far higher, 15%, 30%, 45%. Same with Economy wing that reduces cost of Villagers. So in addition of keeping that same low-villager cost identity, it also opens the doors for other opportunities like Imam builds or an actual early military–which goes hand in hand with their expensive units like Ghulams or Camels.

Of course you’d have to remove some of the Abbasid’s default bonuses, like cheaper land traders and FF. But, this is at least more dynamic and decision oriented which I think the HoW was always meant to be all along.

Well, i can’t quite mass zhuges as easy as before S5, so i think i will go 2 TC in S5 against Abbasid, and not that “zhuge on wall plus ram” tactic

A way to fix Zhung Nu honestly is just to give them +1 attack in Fedual… but make them shoot only two arrows…

This Fixes them vs Rams… Only 2 attack

Overall Same Damage vs Everything else for the Most Part… I did the calcs… but they will be just slightly nerfed if their base attack was 5 x 2 = 10 Rather than 4 *3 = 12

It might mean a nerf vs archers/spears but overall same damage vs MAA and Knights and Horsemen

That would be a nice change… if Culture Wings Reduce Imam Costs though again you really need to move that tech Prosthelyzation to the Mosque for it to have any effect…

I feel like a -10 second Age Up Time is just an overall nicer benefit for Fast Castle/Fast Imp Strategies… and I don’t think its too OP cause Fedual Timing will be the same,

The issue is if you go down this ROute is that you need to rebalance Fresh Food Stuffs because its now in the TC and the economy wing shouldnt reduce the cost of villagers again lol

Or make them shoot slower, but add some tech that increase their damage in castle or imperial.


I did mention that they’d have to remove Fresh Foodstuffs. I think this way would be more interesting rather than having a technology which you can learn at any time at the cost of your villager production.

This contributes to general problems of Abbasids. A lot of their benefits require bizarre and meaningless upfront costs for their bonuses to kick in, rather than having them passively, which delays everything and counteracts the bonuses in my opinion. The fact is that, FF is available at all times, but it will cost you in terms of progression to pick it up. It isn’t age locked, or locked behind a specific building–so why isn’t it just a passive benefit?

Although it used to be part of the House of Wisdom, it was moved due to it too strongly deciding which wings get picked. With what I am proposing however, though it’d return to the House of Wisdom (as a passive), there would be strong incentives to go with other wings due to that cost reduction for each wing. The initial 50% villager cost reduction was insane compared to the Military wing of the past–but, what if your Military wing was also offering a cost reduction to your mil units? And not just the Military wing, but the other ones aswell. Maybe in that case it wouldn’t be so black-and-white.

the goal of this discussion is to add some depth to the culture wing by removing the Imperial Age

Meh, touche. So! I propose a new tech to replace Prosetelyzation all together; Pilgrimage.

The Hajj pilgrimage was (and is) the real cornerstone of all the wealth and cultural development in the muslim world - in and age with no internet and few books, the best way to share information and growth was people just travelling long distances. The Hajj created the impetus for huge populations across africa, asia, and some of europe to travel and converge at a singular point. Thats waay too huge a thing to ignore if we’re talking about culture.

The exact impacts of this kind of travel in that era go on and on, but in game terms it could be something like this; Pilgrimage - boosts pop limit by 25. Thats a fairly powerful lategame perk and hints nicely at how the inspiration for mass travel supported the caliphate in terms of eco and military (since you can use the extra pop for either vills or units). The exact number by which the pop limit is increased can be debated, but theres my two cents.

Another useless tech here is medical centers - the idea is good but keeps are kinda weak nowadays. Maybe extent the healing radius and apply it to TCs and outposts?

Im pretty satisfied with the military wing tbh.

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