By the way, do you know how 65 food comes out? I mean why 65F and not let say 40F? If you don’t know, it’s big brain time.
Italians save 15% for the next Age, so, 75F for the Feudal Age, 120F for the Castle Age, 185F in total. And usually for hybrid maps you have Dock + Barracks + Archery Range, or 3 Docks in Water Maps. But mainly 3 Buildings.
And…185F divided by 3 is? 65F.
idk if this is how the devs did it. I doubt it.
But anyways, it also doesn’t check out cause with wu you get the res BEFORE you click up. And you don’t have to use them to click up. Make 2 Docks and a Barracks to maa rush your opponent. BAM
Best strat for basically ANY hybrid map. across all civs.
And you don’t even have to stop there you can even add ranges or more docks as followup, all in feudal still.
Italy gets the cheap techs and fishing ships, its not so simple
I seriously think they did that. Is it broken? Yes. They should just move Shu/Wei/Wu in their game mode instead of balancing out certain mistakes
Other thannthe number being 195 everything else is correct mathematically
I think its high cost makes the unit balanced. If anything the Wu’s regeneration and eco are the main issues.
Very solid list. Although I disagree with Mongols and Burmese. I’ll prefer Cumans and Armenians.
Yeah. Pretty strong pick in general and should always have upper hand against Wei.
I for sure overestimate Wei in closed maps. Unlike Burgundians, no gunpowder is a big obstacle to overcome to support cavalry army.
The Cumans are still picked by some pros, but lately they have been giving poor results. Maybe they have been played too much. Slavs and Teutons are also ok if you want, but in some matchups you have to go monks/siege push.
Viper on Khitans. Rather damning.
Nah. I don’t see any similarities. Franks eco bonus is for free. Wei eco bonus is investment based like Cumans or Burgundians. I’ll say they are closer to Cumans. The main difference is not having SL or similar unit. And way weaker version of Cumans eco.
They already have “Paladin” in stable. It is called “Heavy Hei Guang Cavalry”. Seriously, after the UT they are just an OP unit in melee combat. They can even beat Franks Paladin.
It dies like flies to ranged units, I think they are fine.
Balanced civ
They have different economy, that’s why I clearly said Wei have no such good economy.
The critical point that allows the Heavy Hei Guang to compete with Paladin is the UT rather than the unit itself, and the basic stats of the Elite Tiger Cavalry is better than the HHG. As the original intension of such a civ design seems to encourage people to transition from the HG to HHG and then to Elite Tiger Cavalry, so I would regard the HG as Knight, HHG as Cavalier and ETC as Paladin.
Losing the Plate Barding Armor in exchange for having such a melee performance is not a decent design to me because I think they are going to be very one-dimensional. People know Wei only can go with cavalry and know to not use melee units to counter the HHG. Also, its effect is too similar to the Gurjaras UT even though they have no same unit getting affected.
Firstly I’d like to change the effect from +4 melee armor to something like -20% damage received, making sure they could be fine to gain the Plate Barding Armor. That could ease the problem but still they are one-dimensional, so I’d like to rework the Tiger Cavalry to become the upgrade for the HHG, so that a new non-cavalry UU can be introduced in the Castle.
In fact, the mobile traction trebuchet is pretty suitable to be the UU named “Pili Cart” (霹靂車, or “Thunder Cart”) in the Castle for Wei since Cao Cao’s forces did created and used them to counter the archery siege towers of Yuan Shao’s forces in the Battle of Guandu, if the Traction Trebuchet can be reworked to be a huge and fixed traction trebuchet that needs unpacked and packed.
Agree. Except I don’t think compensation is not necessary. Maybe 5 less gold at best.
They need a rework. At least 1 less anti-building range so that they don’t outrange castles. Then more base attack. And main problem of these 3 civs is Hero instead of Trebuchet. The Wu is designed around their UU Fire Archer as they lack Trebuchet and Capped Ram. I don’t like such extreme anti balance.
Jian swordsman is supposed to be an anti-archer unit, similar to how the slinger is an anti-infantry unit. Neither have an imperial age upgrade (which I think is intentional). I suspect any nerfs made will target its ability to fight in melee (maybe lower its attack in exchange for extra anti-archer damage - leaving it just as good in its intended role, but making it worse against other units/buildings).
Any discussion yet about Jurchens? On paper they’re my favourite of the new civs (strongest theme, fewest gimmicks) but in practice I can’t get them to work, and judging by the stats, neither can anyone else.
My impression is that their eco bonus is rather weak, and since their other bonuses mostly don’t come in until Castle Age and they have no knights, it’s hard to deal with Feudal Age aggression. Even if you make it to Castle Age first, the lack of knights makes it hard to clean up your opponent’s Feudal army.
Grenadiers seem underwhelming – too inaccurate and squishy to be useful even against infantry, that they’re supposed to counter. Iron Pagoda seems good, but too inaccessible in the castle.
Even if they’re underpowered and need a buff, I assume I am using them wrong to a certain extent as well – so any tips appreciated.
I think we both have the same idea where the issues are for jurchens currently.
They were obviously quite weak since the moment they rwere revealed
I think the Jurchens have a low tolerance for mistakes in early games. The eco bonus of no decay is friendly to newbies but the benefit is indeed thin. The faster attacking scout is nice but not dominating. People think the faster attacking Lancers could compete with Knights for a while after just hitting the Castle age but I think that very needs you to be not behind in the Feudal. I feel that people would easily tend to choose a passive style, pushing slowly with Rocket Carts and Fire Lancers. Although they were aggressive horsemen in the history and have faster attacking mounted units in the game, on closed maps the players sometimes may ironically have not built even one stable in the whole game.
The UUs should be swapped, really. Having Iron Pagoda in the stable so you can have more aggressive play in the Castle age and more accurate to the history; having Grenadier in the castle so it can have a more decent performance in later games with the Elite upgrade.
That would make it more close to the Stirrups…
As long as the civ could train Iron Pagoda at stables, I think the 20% would be fine.
As for the poor Jurchens I suggest this:
This seems like the natural solution to me too. Grenadiers would need a buff to justify being trained in castles (but I think they need one anyway). Iron Pagoda might need a nerf if it’s trained from stables, which would make it more like a knight and so take away its uniqueness somewhat.
Alternatively, they could just get knights (I don’t know why the devs are obsessed with civs that don’t have knights) or Hei Guang cavalry.
With grenadiers, I think the main problem is the combination of inaccuracy and friendly fire. They’re supposed to counter infantry, but at longer distances if the infantry is moving they just miss, and when the infantry come in close the grenadiers kill each other. The damage reduction bonus doesn’t prevent it because they have such low HP relative to infantry.
