Dissolving the Holy Roman Empire

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
81

Yes, or that directly is with the advance of age just …

82

Of course, in fact it would be ten cards based on the ten imperial circles:

Six Imperial Circles were introduced at the Diet of Augsburg in 1500. In 1512, three more circles were added, and the large Saxon Circle was split into two, so that from 1512 until the collapse of the Holy Roman Empire in the Napoleonic era (1806), there were ten Imperial Circles. The Crown of Bohemia, the Swiss Confederacy and Italy remained unencircled, as did various minor territories which held imperial immediacy.

Initially the 1500 Diet of Augsburg set up six Imperial Circles as part of the Imperial Reform:

Originally, the territories held by the Habsburg dynasty and the Electors remained unencircled. In 1512 the Diet at Trier and Cologne organized these lands into three more circles:

Also, the Saxon circle was divided into:

Though the Empire lost several western territories after the secession of the Seven United Netherlands in 1581 and during the French annexations of the 1679 Peace of Nijmegen, the ten circles remained largely unchanged until the early 1790s, when the French Revolutionary Wars brought about significant changes to the political map of Europe.

Some of the circles were de facto controlled by a powerful noble house. The Austrian Circle corresponded almost exactly with the Habsburg hereditary lands. (here is goes to the Habsburg House units)

The Burgundian Circle encompassed the territory controlled by the Spanish Habsburgs (Franche-Comte and the Habsburg Netherlands) (here is goes to the Spanish and Dutch units)

The Bavarian Circle mostly consisted of the Wittelsbach Duchy of Bavaria plus its satellites (here is goes to the Wittlesbach House units).

The Upper Saxon Circle was dominated by the electorates of Saxony (plus its satellite Ernestine duchies) and Brandenburg (here is goes to the Wettin House and Prusian units).

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83

First of all, Poles appeared in Silesia only after the First World War, because they wanted to take a highly developed industrial region from the weakened Germany. During the plebiscites, both in Silesia and Warmia and Mazury, Poland organized resettlements from the poor Polish eastern borderlands to the plebiscite areas.

The idea of ​​"Polishness" of Silesians is nonsense. It is like saying that a resident of the United States is English. The US severed the navel from Great Britain at the end of the 18th century, Silesia had nothing to do with Poland as early as the 14th century (and in the 12th century this process had already begun).

BTW. There is nothing to do with Silesia and Silesians in this game. They never used Polish units.

Exactly. It is also worth adding that Gdańsk in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth had quite a lot of autonomy and was inhabited almost by the Germans themselves. It is also worth noting that there were wars between the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Gdańsk, which were lost by the Poles!

Before the end of World War I, Silesia was inhabited by more Silesians, Germans and Czechs than Poles :wink:

After the Second World War, the displacement of the indigenous people took place, hence we have chaos nowadays, and uneducated people do not know themselves who they are and what they are doing. The indigenous inhabitants of Silesia, Prussia, Pomerania and other regions were displaced (those who were lucky enough to survive the communist aggression). Mainly German-speaking population was resettled and it is worth noting that people living in a multiethnic society know many languages ​​and their cultures clash with each other. And normal people did not have any nationalistic thoughts, hence they did not have nationalist ambitions. In their place, Poles were brought from the eastern borderlands (which were taken from Poland by the USSR). For these people it was a civilization leap, because for the first time they saw toilets, sewage systems, heating, brick houses, cars, etc.

Currently, Silesians and Poles live among themselves in Poland, but on such conditions that it has been inculcated since the times of the communist Polish People’s Republic that Silesians are Poles and do not have their own culture and language. All activities for the benefit of the region are drowned out and ridiculed by Poles. I would call it a mild form of oppression because the years of communism degraded people’s minds.

The early history of Silesia - in a nutshell

In the second half of the 2nd millennium B.C. (late Bronze Age), Silesia belonged to the Lusatian culture. About 500 BC Scyths arrived, and later Celts in the South and Southwest. During the 1st century BC Silingi and other Germanic people settled in Silesia. For this period we have written reports of antique authors who included the area. Slavs arrived in this territory around the 6th century. The first known states in Silesia were those of Greater Moravia and Bohemia. Silesia originally belonged to the Great Moravian state and in 990 it was conquered by the Polans (Lechickie tribe, who created Poland by conquests of other tribes). The symbolic date of the foundation of Poland is its baptism in 966, while Silesia was taken over and baptized by the Czech Republic in 921 (attempts to Christianize Silesia took place in the 9th century!). It remained part of Poland until the Fragmentation of Poland in 1138. In 1202 Poland abolished the seniorate and Silesia’s duchies became independent under constitutional law. The German Ostsiedlung was started at the same time by the ruling Silesian Piasts in order to develop their realms and to increase their power.

Despite the shift of the Silesia from Poland to Bohemia and the treaties mentioned above, medieval lawyers of the Kingdom of Poland created a specific claim to all formerly Polish provinces that were not reunited with the rest of the country in 1320. It employed the theory of the Corona Regni Poloniae according to which the state (the Crown) and its interests were no longer strictly connected with the person of the monarch. Because of that no monarch could effectively renounce his claims to any of the territories that were historically and/or ethnically Polish. Those claims were reserved for the Crown, which in theory still covered all of the territories that were part of or dependent on the Polish Crown in 1138.

By the end of the 14th century, the country had split into 17 principalities: Wrocław, Brzeg, Głogów, Jawor, Legnica, Ziębice, Oleśnica, Świdnica and Ścinawa in Lower Silesia; Bytom, Niemodlin, Koźle, Nysa, Opole, Racibórz, Strzelce Opolskie and Cieszyn in the Upper Silesia. Dukes of Lower Silesia, such as Henry I and Bolko I, and the above-named Henry II and IV, who succeeded in reuniting most of the nearby principalities.

Polish king, Casimir the Great, renounced his claims to Silesia. This was formalized in the Treaty of Trentschin and Congress of Visegrád (1335), ratified in 1339 and later after Polish-Czech war confirmed in the 1348 Treaty of Namslau. As a result, the Polish kingdom renounced any claims to Silesia “for all future times”, making the border between the Holy Roman Empire and hence the Germanosphere in Silesia one of the longest lasting borders in Europe. From the early 1500 on, the Empire was termed the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, which paralleled the rise of the concept of a German nation.

In short:

  • 1526 - Later, Silesia and the rest of the Czech crown were later incorporated into the Habsburg monarchy
  • 1740-1763 - Frederick II the Great conquers almost all of Silesia (except Cieszyn Silesia) during the Silesian Wars, which makes Silesia part of the Kingdom of Prussia
  • 1871 - Silesia becomes part of the German Empire after the unification of Germany
  • 1919-1921 - plebiscite and fights for influence over Silesia between Germany and Poland (supported by the French army). Bringing the Polish population from the poorest regions to Upper Silesia (border areas) via Poland

Thus, throughout its history, Silesia belonged to Poland for less than 250 years. Silesia was independent for some time (some of the principalities of Silesia gradually gained the sovereignty of the Czech Republic). For many centuries it was part of the Czech Crown (also when it was part of the Habsburg state). Then he was part of Prussia and Germany. He is currently in Poland.

84

When it comes to this game, Silesia found itself most in Prussian times, when it became a highly industrialized and rich region. I am counting on the map of Silesia in the game (and even two maps: Upper Silesia and Lower Silesia).

Silesia could be perfectly represented by Prussians civ with a unique building used to extract mining resources and miners. It is also worth remembering the Silesian Schuetzen - skirmisher infantry, a unit used in the Prussian army.

Additionally, with the help of Royal Houses, it could be possible to add the Piast /or Hochberg Royal House for Silesian maps with more Untis and Silesian Content.

85

Look at the first table under historical data, the majority in Upper Silesia were Polish speaking.

This is completely false, also funny as the official German research counter your claims.

Also Silesians are by some considered to be a subgroup of Polish people of which atleast the language is closely related to. Ofcourse you have German Silesians, but thats the same for Bohemian Germans.

86

Yes, what matters to us is the last part…

87

I can see it, and allow me to expand on it.

Age II:

  • The Quartermaster: Duke of Württemberg
    Lumber from the Black Forest

  • The Philosopher Prince: Count of Weimar
    In honor of Weimar’s most famous resident, Goethe.

  • The Naturalist: Duke of Tyrol
    Alpine cattle, Settler Wagon wears Lederhose

  • The Logistician: Margrave of Brandenburg
    Military-oriented choice

  • The Governor: Archbishop of Salzburg
    Defensive nature (Festung Salzburg), relative wealth and prosperity

  • The Inventor: Free-City of Nuremberg
    In honor of artist and thinker Albrecht Dürer

Age III:

  • The Gentleman Pirate: Haseatic City of Wismar
    Hometown of notorious pirate Klaus Störtebeker

  • The Exiled Prince: Landgrave of Thuringia
    For hosting Martin Luther at Wittenberg Castle, perhaps Germany’s most famous exile

  • The Marksman: The Duke of Silesia
    For the famous Prussian light infantry from this region

  • The Sergeant-at-Arms: Duke of Burgundy
    Burgundy was first to use Landsknechts

  • The Bishop: Elector of Mainz, or any of the other Ecclesiastical Electors like Köln or Trier
    Religious tie-in to the Bishop figure

Age IV:

  • The Engineer: Principality of Liechtenstein
    The Liechtenstein family reformed the Austrian artillery during the 18th century.

  • The Tycoon: Free-City of Hamburg
    For economic wealth

  • The Cavalry Marshal: Duke of Saxony
    Saxons fielded the best cavalry among the German states

  • The Viceroy: Duke of Bavaria
    For the lederhose-wearing Settler Wagons

  • The Papal Guard: Swiss Confederation
    Papal Guards come from Switzerland

Age V:

  • El Presidente: Archduchy of Austria
    Wealth and splendor of the Habsburgs

  • The General: Kingdom of Prussia
    Military-oriented choice

  • The Mercenary Contractor: Landgrave of Hesse
    For the Hessian mercenaries

  • The Knight: The Deutschmeister/The Teutonic Order
    The Germans’ very own knightly order. I’d like to this augmented with some stuff from Malta if they introduced, say, an Advanced Politicians card like Italy

  • The Inventor: Kingdom of Bohemia
    Many famous inventors, artists, and intellectuals were Czechs, or inhabitants of Bohemia

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88

It serves me, it serves me…

89

Honestly, your idea is very good, but I have a proposal that Austria and Prussia be revolutions of the Holy Roman Empire of the Age of Fortresses to revolutionize again like the German Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire as revolutions of the imperial age like Yucatan. being a revolution of Mexico and can revolutionize again in the Mayans

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90

The German Empire is filled with… Germans? The civ is Germans? And you want a revolt option fot Germans?

Also a big part of Austria is German.

But okay lets say because of more historical accuracy you want a way to portray the dissolution of the HRE and the really not that big of a split between Austria and Prussia. Well then you should stick to the historical part and not bend it however you like just to fit your own ideas. Third age revolt for the Prussians? In like what? 1600-1760? The HRE existed untill 1806, that is the mid industrial age for ya. So no there is no historical backing nor gameplay backing to make the Prussians a revolt option third age. Same for Austria.

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91

I agree Germans are the worst-designed civ. Is a weird mix between Prussia, Austria, with elements of Poland and Bohemia. IDK why they have Hussite wagons.

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92

Its called the HRE and it is historically accurate. Nothing weird.

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93

This is good for Austrians civ, but not for “all Germans” Germans civ. Galicia (Cracow, Lviv) and Bohemia (Bohemian Crown countries) they were parts of Austrian Empire.

94

Germans civ is definitely Austrian civ without Hungarian Crown lands elements (Hungary, Croatia, Slovakia, Transylvania, Vojvodina and Bosnia).

95

Bruh! Germans get Hungarian Hussar through shipment.

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96

Oh then what do you call the Indians civ? It’s even worse.

97

In place of Winged Hussars. Of course after adding Poles civ.

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98

Sure, like AoE 4, but being the German people more than the HRE…