That would be cool. But it seems too advanced for AoE 2.
Let the Italians civ remain the representatives of the rest of Italy. Can something be done to make this civ more universally Italian.
Not really, the aoe3 Italian civ has elements from many different Italian states from the Renaissance to the Unification of Italy. Venetian elements don’t really dominate in the civ design.
The civ is already complete with its unique units and techs, so not much to add. Otherwise I would have suggested the Galleass.
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I guess we can add things like stradiots swiss guards galleass unique building like a bank but that would be too much for one tt.
Maybe replacing some of the Unique techs names? The Pavise is just the shield used by the Genoese Crossbowmen and Silk road is an extremely generic name. Any of those can be changed to some mention of Venice.
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Thats a very good idea UT names can represent other city states.current uu genoa condo milan ut1 venice ut2 florence.
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That’s it. For example, after creating the Venetians civ you can make some changes to the Italians civ.Maybe it would be possible to introduce “customization” of civs where one could choose interesting building models. There are already several building models in this game that could be added to this function.
Romanians + Western Slavs + Albanians could cover all of the Balkans in 1 shot. I don’t think there is anyone left.
We have Romanians for Wallachians, Moldavians and Transylvanians.
Western Slavs for Croats, Bosniaks and Serbs.
And Albanians for Albanians.
And so with 3 civs you represent all the balkans.
For a shorter name they could be called “West Slavs” instead.
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Better idea add only romanians and something else like venice so all the others are unhappy.
The Croatians civ would easily represent themselves as well as the Slovenians and Bosnians. Besides, the Croatian Kingdom, established by King Tomislav, included these territories. Culturally and historically they were closer to Italy and Germany.
The Serbs civ would represent themselves and the Montenegrins. It was the zone of Byzantine and Bulgarian influence.
True, but you have the Homecity that is Venice…
Yes, you can rename Silk Road to Venetian Trade…and rename Pavise to Genoese Pavise…
Yeah, there’s a lot of potential there…4 civs plus slavic rework like DoI…
So? Take a look at half of their unique units and the whole Basilica mechanics, all of that refers to the Papal States. The Pavisiers are Genoan and the Bersaglieri from Sardinia/unified Italy.
The units also speak Standard Italian, which originated in Tuscany.
It mixes elements from many Italian states over the entire time span of AoE3.
It’s the very definition of an umbrella civ, for better or worse.
True, it’s all a mix from Sardinia to Sicily…
This is incorrect for Bosnia, medieval Bosnian state was populated by Serbs, they called themselves Serbs, had Serb leaders, it was only a separate state (similar case was for many medieval peoples, i.e. Germans, French, etc…)
So Bosnian state can be put in umbrella with Serbs, and Slovenese can be put with Croats.
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This is not completely true, a short lived Serb medieval state of Pagania was mainly focused on water warfare, actually they were Adriatic pirates, using ship Sagena and Kondura mostly.
“The main type of vessel the Narentines used was the Slavic Sagena (Latin: “Sagitta”, meaning: “arrow”) from the beginning of the 9th century, a variation of the Scandinavian Viking Drakkar. It was a long, relatively shallow vessel that was specific for its high speed with a slender body, a sharp bow and a mast. It was manned by 40 crewmembers that were at the same time professional fighters. Other than this type of vessel, the Pagans used the Kondura; a ship similar to the Sagena, but a lot smaller, with a crew of 20 members.”
Please forget about umbrella names, mainly Western Slavs name, Western Slavs are: Poles, Czechs, Slovaks. South Slavs are: Serbs, Croats,…
And also, please don’t be influenced by modern geopolitics! South Slavs in medieval times were mostly allies, at least people were, and looked at each other as close kin. Nobility skirmished whenever they could, but it was due to expansion of one’s fiefdom, not nationality based.
I support OPs initial idea, Serbs & Romanians/Vlachs!
And then some other DLC it could contain Croats and Albanians…
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I thought of West Slavs because South Slavs would include the Bulgarians too.
But at the end for the day this whole discussion about whether the 3rd civ should be the Croatians or Albanians is unimportant, as there’s an 80% chance that the next DLC will have 2 civs. That was always the norm, Dynasties of India was the exception rather than the rule. So yes we should probably have Serbs & Romanians/Vlachs in the first DLC and sometimes much later we could have Croats and Albanians.
As far as I can see, nobody is questioning that Serbs & Romanians/Vlachs are more relevant than Croats and Albanians. The question is only whether Croats or Albanians are more relevant.
This is likely due to Vlad the Impaler & Stefan Dusan. While Albania yes it has Skanderbeg, I would say Vlad the Impaler and Stefan Dusan are more known in popular culture than him.
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Since the 3 campaigns are: Matthias Corvinus (Magyars), Mehmed the conqueror (Turks), Stefan Dušan (Serbs); it would be cool if the Romanians would get an update to Dracula’s campaign. Right now it’s the worst campaign in the game and I’m saying this as a Romanian.
Of course. The campaign will get an update since the placeholder Turks, Maygars and Slavs need to be replaced with Romanians. But since the campaign will already edited it could be edited to be so much more:
This is what can be changed with Dracula’s campaign:
- Fix small historical inaccuracies.
- The player faction will always be Romanians.
- Added a new mission between 2 & 3 “The Debt of the Dragon”.
- Added unique historical heroes through the campaign. (Will mention them below)
- Make the campaign co-op.
1. FACTUALLY INCORRECT EVENTS:
1.1 During Mission 1 the 3 boyars → You are helped by 3 Romanian voivods. There are 2 issues with this:
a. The name of lords/dukes in Wallachia and Moldavia was boyars. Voivod, at the time of Dracula, meant ruler of the country. Only Dracula himself was voivod. So the 3 random voivods should be 3 random boyars.
b. Jakub, Mircea and Istvan are not real people who helped Vlad the Impaler, they’re randomly named. Jakub and Istvan are not even proper Romanian names.
SOLUTION: Instead, the first mission should use real people who actually helped Vlad III instead of generic nobleman names. They could be heroes. They are real historical figures who helped Vlad the Impaler take his throne:
- Vintila Florescu, Champion (pro-Dracula boyar from mission 1)
- Neagoe de la Strehaia, Paladin (pro-Dracula boyar from mission 1)
- Giacu Balaceanu, Arbalester (pro-Dracula boyar from mission 1)
The objectives can be changed like this: * Wallachian Boyars (Romanians): The three boyars control fortified positions in the southern half of the map, Vintila Florescu commanding the east, Neagoe de la Strehaia the center and Giacu Balaceanu the western force. They each give Vlad a quest and grant control of some of their troops upon initiating their quests.
1.2 During Mission 2 intro → Bogdan II was not his cousin, but his uncle. Bogdan II’s son was his cousin, who was very relevant in Vlad’s life (therefore probably the confusion) he is the one that the new mission I suggest is related to.
End of Mission 2 → At the end of the intro in the 2nd mission it says: “Bogdan II, Dracula’s cousin and the new Voiveod of Moldavia”. This is not correct. Bogdan II was Dracula’s uncle. The creator of the campaign in Forgotten Empires likely confused him with his son. His son, was Vlad’s cousin, he was Prince Stephen who helped him take back Wallachia in this 2nd mission. And after becoming the new Voiveod of Moldavia (because of other events not in the scope of this campaign) would help Vlad take back Wallachia from the last time in Mission 5. So if a voice editor could be used to change “cousin” into “uncle” it would be great.
Wallachian & Moldavian politics would put Game of Thrones to shame since rulers would change quickly, so I understand Forgotten Empires Team’s mistake, but it would be a nice detail for historical accuracy.
This is the timeline in Moldavia:
→ Bogdan II
→ Vlad comes, his cousin Prince Stephen helps him.
→ While Stephen is in Wallachia is father is killed by his uncle who takes the throne.
→ Vlad the Impaler helps Prince Stephen to take back his throne (not a mission in the game)
→ Prince Stephen becomes Stephen III of Moldavia, and actually rules for 47 years (unique in W&M at time)
→ Stephen III of Moldavia ne(textGetsCensored)ciates Vlad’s release from Hungary and helps him take Wallachia in mission 5.
SOLUTION: Rewrite the mission 2 Outro: Bogdan II, Dracula’s uncle and the new Voivod of Moldavia, had heard of his kinsman’s plight and offered his help. If Dracula could cross the Carpathian Mountains into Transylvania and ally with Hungary, then they could launch a three-pronged assault on Vladislav II and the Turks. His cousin and heir to the throne of Moldavia, Stephen, would help him.
1.3. End of Mission 4 Vlad waited for Hungarian reinforcements → Not sure why this isn’t mentioned, but it’s worth pointing out that Vlad was waiting for reinforcements from Hungary, as they promised since the beginning of the war (they were supposed to arrive since mission 3 at Giurgiu). Instead, King Mathias betrayed and imprisoned Vlad. Perhaps this should be mentioned in the outro. Basically, King Mathias tricked Vlad to fight a war alone, promising he’ll come with the army in Wallachia but never did, and when he lost, King Mathias imprisoned him to secure good relations with the Ottomans. (Kind of poetic, Vlad hated treachery)
SOLUTION: Mission 4 Outro: * (…)I watched Dracula’s boat float downstream. I heard he went to Transylvania to receive help. He formed an alliance with the king of Hungary, the Black Army was supposed to arrive since the beginning of the war with the Ottomans, but instead the Black Army of Matthias Corvinus betrayed an imprisoned him. As for I, the stone bastions of Poenari never caught flame, so I was spared(…).
1.4. End of Mission 5 Vlad didn’t die, he ruled for the 3rd time and died 1 year later → Fixing the historical inaccuracy at the end saying he died in battle. Actually he won. This can be easily checked by Wikipedia saying he reign 3 times. He died 1 and a half year after that, betrayed by the boyars and given to the Ottomans (which is ironic considering he hated treachery the most). But he didn’t die in that battle as the game says.
SOLUTION: Mission 5 Outro: All of the outro text is incorrect. It should be remade from scratch, stating that he won and became ruler of Wallachia once again, his cousin Stephen III of Moldavia left him 200 bodyguards and left. Dracula tried to stabilize his rule once more, but this reign was short-lived, as the boyars betrayed him and gave him to the Ottomans. Perhaps the campaign could be ended with this real life Dracula quote that in essence summarized his life:
“When a man or a prince is powerful and strong at home, then he will be able to do as he wills. But when he is without power, another more powerful than he will overwhelm him and do as he wishes” - Vlad the Impaler
2) THE PLAYER FACTION WILL ALWAYS BE ROMANIANS.
Naturally.
3) ADDED A NEW MISSIONS BETWEEN 2 & 3 “The Debt of the Dragon”.
- The Dragon Spreads His Wings (Romanians)
- The Return of the Dragon (Romanians)
- The Debt of the Dragon (Romanian)
- The Breath of the Dragon (Romanians)
- The Moon Rises (Romanians)
- The Night Falls (Romanians)
Making reference to the fact that Vlad pays his debt to Prince Stephen. → The Invasion of Moldavia to depose Prince Stephen’s uncle (Petru Aron) who just killed Stephen’s father to take the throne while Stephen was helping Vlad take Wallachia in Mission 2.
You invade Moldavia from the south with Dracula’s army (and Stephen’s army in co-op), one led by Dracula another led by Prince Stephan, and have to capture Doljești, Orbic and finally the capital city Suceava. After that Petru Aron flees to Poland an Stephen is crowned king/voivod.
In co-op, the player 1 is Dracula and player 2 is Prince Stephen.
4) ADDED UNIQUE HISTORICAL HEROES THROUGH THE CAMPAIGN.
These are some historical figures who helped Vlad III:
- Prince Stephen/Stephen III of Moldavia → Crown Prince of Moldavia & cousin of Vlad the Impaler. He hepled Vlad take back his throne in Mission 2. And instead Vlad helped Stephen avenge his father take Moldavia in Mission 3 (Stephen’s uncle killed his father, the ruler of Moldavia, and took the throne). After this event he became ruler of Moldavia. He would later negocitate Vlad’s release from the Kingdom of Hungary and help Vlad take Wallachia in Mission 5.
- Neagoe de la Strehaia → most powerful of his allies, nobleman supporting Vlad, ruler of Craiova
- Vintila Florescu → nobleman supporting Vlad
- Giacu Balaceanu → nobleman supporting Vlad
- Udriste Manea → nobleman supporting Vlad
- Commander Gales → nobleman & general in service of Vlad, he failed to attack the Ottoman Camp from the east during the night attack, while Vlad the Impaler attacked from the west; some sources blame Gales for the failure of the night attack
The following characters could be Heroes:
- Prince Stephen, Unique Skin Hussar (Dracula’s cousin from mission 2, not yet voivod) (also in the new mission 3)
- Stephen III of Moldavia, Unique Skin Paladin (Dracula’s cousin from mission 5, voivod)
- Vintila Florescu, Hussar (pro-Dracula boyar from mission 1)
- Neagoe de la Strehaia, Champion (pro-Dracula boyar from mission 1)
- Giacu Balaceanu, Arbalester (pro-Dracula boyar from mission 1)
- Commander Gales, Paladin (general in service of Dracula in missions 3 and 4)
If you need another Vlach nobleman helping Vlad you can use the name Udriste Manea.
5) MAKE THE CAMPAIGN CO-OP:
Vlad Dracula’s campaing has the potential of being a co-op campaing:
- In mission 1, player 1 could play with Dracula as Romanian (loyal Wallachian retinue) and player 2 play as Turks (Mustafa Hassan gave him the Turkish troops but didn’t personally lead the army).
- In mission 2, Prince Stephen could be the co-op partner. (real person) (also in the new mission 3)
- In missions 3 and 4, Commander Gales could be the co-op partner. (real person)
- In mission 5 Stephen III of Moldavia could be the co-op partner. (real person)
Mission 1 co-op would be very interesting, as 1 player plays the Romanians and the 2nd player plays the Turks.
Stephen’s evolution would be interested. You play with Prince Stephen in 2 early missions only to play as Stephen III of Moldavia in the last mission.
I think these changes would make the campaign great.
Also, this could be a great 4v4 Real Life Map, it could be called “Carpathians”:
A few passages in the middle of the carpathians split the 2 teams.
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Yeah, the current Dracula campaign is one of the Forgotten campaigns that they tried to be super innovative with, and do as RP campaigns. It’s the only Forgotten campaign that hasn’t been completely rebuilt, and while it has some clever ideas, I dunno it just feels weird as an AOE 2 campaign. I think it could certainly use a major rework, and your ideas seem very well thought out.
Mistaken the part of the condottiero. For example, one of the most famous was Giovanni delle Bande Nere who served the Church State in central Italy.
Incidentally, I am very sure that the model of the game’s Condottiero uses the Armour with which he was buried.
This would go very well.
This sounds incredibly wrong in Italian. Because Pavese comes from Pavia, a city in northern Italy, and pavese is an inhabitant of Pavia. And the ‘Pavesaio’ was the person who carried the shield. If you want to go down this road, you should rename ‘Pavese’ to ‘Tavolaccio’, plus it was used by all the Italian communal militia in the 1300s.
So good try, but it’s fine as it is.
Luckily someone else remembered it
EDIT. If nothing else, the names chosen by the AI could be revised. But that is a separate thread.