Do NOT buy this DLC

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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Bohemia. Easy. Kingdom of Bohemia was already part of the HRE at this point in time, and the only reason the OOtD is even related to the HRE is because Sigismund was a Bohemian royal which allowed him to eventually become the HRE emperor. The reality is that the civilization does nothing to represent the actual Order of the Dragon. The name is clearly just flavor. That was the case with Empire of Jade, and is still the case with ZXL. And we will surely never get an actual civilization called Bohemia, so this is as good as time as any. The hungarian mercenary black army would also conquer about half of its territory later on, so there is actual precedence for the kind of units they’re making.

I agree with what Lamb is saying. There is basically two sides to this. One, that detests the names for their inconsistency, unnecessary breakage of tradition and for tarnishing the standing attempt at keeping the game grounded in terms of civilizations and history. Then, there is another side that is basically telling the first to constantly shut up in every thread, ever. See @Fyrapan90 for exactly this kind of spam.

I have yet to see anyone genuinely care for OOtD as a name, which is mostly an unknown aristocratic order that does not have the same kind of reputation as the Teutonic Order, or the Crusader States (both which has actual relevance to the DLC). It is mostly, again, a bad attempt at flavour. And ZXL has no one even trying to pretend that they like its name. I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again; rename them to the Jin, make the Dynasties Liao → Jin → Yuan → Qing. They already exist in the Mongol campaign, and with all the raider units they have, it is far more appropriate for a Jurchen civilization (that will never have a real civilization in this game, too). The entire Chan Buddhism stuff lines up with territories captured by the Jin as well.

JdA is arguable due to how out there the civilization is. But, the game already has already set precedence with the Mongols and its Khan. Seriously, the JdA can have a very regular naming convention of some Kingdom, with JdA simply representing a King. There is no reason to break convention, simply to pretend JdA lived for multiple centuries, or breaking the illusion of that experience in the game. There is no need for this, at all.

The fundamental problem with all of these entirely rational suggestions, is that there ARE people at Relic or World’s Edge’s offices that WANT these bad names to happen. They don’t care about people who have an issue with it. I think that is what is most insulting about this entire endeveour with the variants. I have no care for JdA, fake chinese civilization or an irrelevant order that, again, has fuck all to do with its civilization design.

Too bad. Whoever is behind these naming decisions are actively harming the DLC, and they are doing it for no real reason.

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22

Please flag these topics …

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I don’t tell anyone to shut up, I challenge someone’s argument that I disagree with and that I provide with facts and they keep coming with false assumptions and lies.

I’m all for everyone to have an opinion on the expansion, it’s your money but the issue I have is the lies.

And it’s funny you call me spamming when it’s the same group of people opening new threads about the same topics and complaints.

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You’re right, you don’t literally say it. I was hoping you’d take it to mean what I suggested, which is that there is simply fierce resistance to anything negative without any real reason behind any of it. You, yourself, seem passionless about the things you keep fighting. Effectively, I only see you telling people to “not have an opinion” until they play the content themselves, or that you are “tired” of hearing about complaints.

It is very easy to literally scroll past or not engage with it. Yet, you do. Not because you like ZXL’s name. But, because you dislike people complaining about it. What is the difference between this and telling people to shut up? I guess there is a difference. Either way, I see this type of bickering as an attempt at holding an oppressive hold over discussions you personally don’t agree with.

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Though Lamb hasn’t even half the idea of what he’s saying. There’s also a middle ground and I bet that’s the best place to be… Sometimes a bit of moderation can just do the trick, you know? Constantly soldiering on can get on people’s nerves and maybe seeing that the same discussion keeps going circles may just make them plead for silence.

Anyway some comments are just as inaccurate as the variants are, historically.

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You’re right.

I just think people should be allowed to express their thoughts on the game, without having people tell them they are wrong for how they feel. There is no reason to sit here and try to convince others of anything, yet too much time and energy gets spent watering down discussions doing exactly that.

Just present what you like or dislike about the game. Stop trying to fight people over it.

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27

I mean the theme of the civilization is an order of extensively trained and lavishly outfitted nobles. It truly represents a collection of nobility more than it does a normal nation that is almost entirely conscripts and mercenaries (standing armies didn’t really exist at this time)

Even if someone has an issue with order of the dragon, every other name they could choose would be equally problematic. Arguably it could be named after a more popular order.

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By the way most of the people who attack me for disliking the some part of dlc most of them are age insider its so weird.

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I’m simply replying to spam comments that I disagree with and therefore I am telling people to “shut up” in your eyes? How do you make those connections?

I’m challenging some people opinions that is purely based on either assumptions by them or false information. I provide with information from the website and from “trustful” sources that is under NDA that also have shared a bunch of extra information that either proves my point or at least provide with some validation but that is apparently not enough and they continue to go on with their rant and disagree just to try and prove their point no matter how incorrect it is.

Everyone is of course allowed and should be able to express their opinion but at some point this becomes just ridiculous when trying to argue against facts. Do as you please, I am not telling you to buy this expansion or not, and if I ever have sounded like that I apologize as that is not my intent.

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Some aren’t even interested in listening others. They won’t change their minds, they don’t want to have a discussion at all, or aren’t capable of it, who knows.

If it’s the first time it’s good to have a discussion but it’s important to recognise when it turns to stubborn fighting. At that point everyone should go their own way and the next time you encounter that same person making the same statements the best thing it’s ignoring them altogether. They speak their mind (and maybe don’t get further attention if saying incorrect things) and you don’t get to look the censor.

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They’re not battling with anyone. There are some people still unhappy after the recent renamings of two of the variants.

This is fine. They’re allowed to be unhappy. But at the same time there’s a cutoff for translating that into changes. You aren’t owed anything, and you don’t owe the devs anything either.

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some are even council members, from that council that gave feedback during development, but most of those guys are smart enough to not step this low

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the point he’s making is, jean d’arc was the #1 request to rename, nothing happened with it, the less vocal ones did get addressed, ofc OOTD was left alone as it was the only one with historical background, although really brief one

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YOU aint making ANY SENSE WHATSOEVER.

You literally just said;

BUT… because they gave you MORE than what you would HAVE ALREADY PAID 15 BUCKS FOR…and that MORE APPEARS (keyword is appears…) to be content not worthy of your patronage; you want to throw away the GOOD with the “ALLEGED” bad???

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I understand that the name jean d’arc is frustrating people, but what would you name it instead when the whole civ seems to be around her?

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allow me to translate what the poster you responded to meant, make civ variants their own selection tab at least

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in which case i ask, why is entire gameplay loop centered on her, i get its unique, and an interesting concept, but saving this for some more exotic, potentially native american civ would’ve been a better call imo, also i’m well aware the whole name debacle has less to do with relic, more so its world’s edge screwing up

38

naw man…

he said

I would have bought option A; but because you gave me both option A (new civs) and option B ("subpar’ variants); I am NO LONGER INTERESTED… even though you’re still getting option A; the one thing he already admits is WORTH his money??? HUH??

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he’s one of the people, you can safely include me in that camp, that would prefer not to see these variants and rather swap them with potentially a second campaign or 3rd full civ

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So you want to remove 6 new civs to just get 3 new civs? Where is the logic in that?

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