Easier monk micro

To do that, you basically need a num pad, which most laptops don’t have. Also, bear in mind you also need to assign your regular hotkeys to monks as well, which creates other issues.

If you convert it, and remember, in the lategame, the number of hussars/light cav running around can get quite high, so monks don’t have a long life expentency. Also, as the fights get larger and more macro scaled, monk micro gets progressively harder.

Not sure what you mean by need to assign regular hotkeys to monks, but yes, without a num pad the monks micro get`s bothersome. Thankfully my HP laptop has a numpad.

Youre right. Any strategy has its counters.

I normally use the hotkeys 1-5, sometimes above, but usually those. They are my default control group hotkeys. Because I believe being pretty efficient, I’ve developed my own hotkey set, kind of like the DE defaults, but entirely on the left and no grid system. The similarity being how both are on the left of the keyboard and quite compact. If I want to select a control group, I press the number key that corresponds to it. I use 1-5 most because my hand is already in that position. As soon as you get above that, it now becomes harder to switch between control groups. I don’t even use anything more than control group 10, because binding it requires me to press ctrl+alt+x and then alt-x to select it, which is really inneficient, and I’m likely to tap the wrong thing by mistake. If I had a num pad, which I don’t, but if I did, that’s on the other side of the keyboard, which is just as bad. Hence, for me, and probably most others, monk micro using all 20 possible control groups isn’t really viable. 1 through 10 in a monk arena game? Sure. But when you need to start converting straight away, anything after 10 isn’t viable.

How is this an issue? switching hand position takes not even half a second, and is surely worth when microing 10++ monks. Its surely faster than keeping your hand where it is and not using it because you do all the micro with your mouse.

On of those units isn’t convertable, and one barely every sees play…im not denying monks can be situationaly good, mostly against BBC, but claiming they are overall strong is just wrong.

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I think for monks control groups are just not useful. Cotrol groups are - as the name suggests - for groups. Right opposite Monk micro is individual unit micro.

Some days ago I suggested a “next unit of the same type” hotkey.

But it’s clear that whenever this is introduced it must come with a slight nerf to monks and possibly also some adjustments to certain civs like aztecs.

And to whoever claims monk micro was easy… I don’t know in what world you live in.

Which one? Trebs are convertable. Just as any other siege unit with redemption researched.

Half a second maybe, but you have the risk of hitting the wrong key, and then half a second to switch back. Half a sec can also be the difference between a conversion and a dead monk.

Trebs are convertable only from melee. And thats the same as not beeing convertable.

since all your keys in that area will do the exact same thing - select a single monk - there is no “wrong key”.

Again, im not saying monk micro is easy or that monks are a good lategame units, but telling us youd rather micro big 10+ with your mouse alone than switching hand position and doing it with hotkeys is really weird.

I’m not saying I’d use a mouse. I would use 10 control groups, and cycle through them quickly, but the point is, above 10 becomes a lot less efficient without a num pad.

Never heard anyone doing this and I think that takes way too much time. Just use your regular 1-10 hotkeys. If you have more than 10 monks you’re probably in imp in either way. Even if you monk rush on arena rarely you have more than 10-15 monks in castle age. Larger amounts of monks need theocracy to use effectively. Meaning if you convert one unit with several monks only one needs to rest. And in the time you use 20 hotkeys to start conversions some monks will be done with their task so you can just as well use these for new conversions instead of setting up such a crazy amount of control groups.

Well in late game you don’t use that amount of monks either way. Let’s be real the only realistic scenario here is arena games where you either go no eco full monks in castle age and/or buy the food to go fast imp.

As long as you stay with 5 (some people manage to use it effectively with up to 10 units) it is actually super useful. You need some time to set up the groups sure but the value you get from that can be insane. And if you play monks you don’t have other units to micro or on control groups (maybe some pikes or a mangonel) and no eco to focus anyways.

Btw the alternative is (and usually use this way as I’m too lazy to set up that many control groups) to select to whole group of monks, start converting and then select one by one single monks from the UI to target different units one after another.

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That would be so ridiculously OP. Might as well make villagers auto-fight on aggressive stance.

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i personally don’t like conversion mechanic and i think it’s already a great counter to some very strong unit that does not need to be made any stronger. but that may just be my personal taste or dislike of the wololo power

Chances are it’s personal opinion, or monk rush arena clownery wouldn’t exist. There will be people who agree with you though.

Just remembered this one (from min 15:30): The Vululu Play of The Year | Golden Pit vs Hera - YouTube

Slightly different context bc “only” 3 monks and defensive boom instead of full monk no eco play but it aptly shows how powerful using control groups for monks can be (if you don’t already know the clip).

Totally agree that individual monks are insanely strong, possibly even too strong.
But that doesn’t change that higher amounts of monks are insaly hard to micro.

Also you put one of the best monk plays ever out here… What actually indicates that it is actually very hard to pull that of, cause if it was that easy, everybody would do it.

IMO individual low numbers of monks are too strong but in higher numbers they become terribly hard to micro. And I think both of this should be adressed.

Yeah sure that play was great but what made it so creative I think is the tc ungarrison. Putting control groups you can make in advance and then pressing 1,2,3,4 and clicking targets in between isn’t actually that hard. Might be a bit unusual if you’re not used to that mechanic but once you’ve done it couple of times it’s not that difficult.

And monks in larger groups are way more difficult to micro, yes. But as said in the other post if you have theocracy it’s still a pretty effective play. You usually don’t do that on open maps but imo it’s completely fine to stick to couple of monks here for initial defense and then transition into other units later on. This way I think we have a better balance for defensive play. Because otherwise it might be easy to just boom and play monk mangonel defense.

And on closed maps going for lots of monks is already super strong if you have a civ with the necessary upgrades. If microing large groups of monks would be made easier I fear monk rushes get op.

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Just want to butt in to remark how strongly I agree with this :slight_smile:


This is an extreme example but imagine if every civ had access to conquistadors from their archery ranges, but they were all stuck-on no-attack making them impossible to use without constant babysitting this makes it difficult for you to use conqs in high numbers unless you are very skilled at conq micro. meanwhile the AI is absolutely scary with its infinite bohemian trash Conqs spam. I would rather have conqs that are actually balanced and don’t have to be handicapped by awful controls. Also, I am perfectly fine with Vills that auto attack however nerfs their attack speed or something they should not trade equally with militia.

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