Simple suggestion that could make fall in place with civ balance changes. It is a pretty uniquely powerful upgrade. Its probably the best imp UT in the game by far. Imagine if Frank’s got an upgrade that added 66% hp to paladins for 265 hp.
I’d argue this is one of the reasons for the Mayan domination of the Metagame from their release till now. Even after this small tweak, remember they would still get as much as +50% HP on their eagles, meaning they’re still the best eagles by far.
A SoTL video analysing eagles had stated that the Mayan EEW was as good as an Aztec EEW and a half!
NOTE: I hope you are not part of NCBW (No Changes Because Winrate) or NCBMW (No Changes Because More Work) blocs.
Let us discuss keeping an open mind.
Mayans don’t get champion, so EEW is mainly their only proper (ie. non-trash) infantry unit to use. And EEW are murdered by champions itself and cannot counter the enemy champions with their own. Guess it’s justified.
Are you sure of this? Absolutely no pro game has the Champion move worked because the EEW have 1.43 speed compared to only 0.99 on Champion. They are 50% faster than champion AND have 50% MORE HP at the same time. The speed means the Champions don’t get any hits in before EEW have flooded the economy.
And which Meso civ that gets champion actually goes for champions? The aztecs never go champions.
I know Mayans getting tankier and strongest eagles is justified. I’m not arguing against that.
What i’m saying is, is getting as much as 166% HP eagles justified? Is 150% HP eagles not enough? If yes, tell the reason why 150% HP is also not enough.
Honestly mayans are already kinda OTP what are their options bad monks no cav no champs no gunpowder no siege engeneers so only good siege unit is ram so what they actualy can do -> archers,skirms,halbs,ram,EEW not to mention long creation time of EEW making them viable only in later on.
Maybe could be good it would make them just a bit more balanced but when we are talking about mayans nerfing i cant understand we dont see aztec,persian,chinese… nerf cause i belive they are stronger than mayans.
Those will happen too. Persians are being nerfed as we speak in the next patch. Right now, focus on the issue of this Thread, that of 166% HP 8 Pierce armor Eagles for the Mayans that have 1.43 speed, 50% more than any infantry that counter it.
El Dorado Eagles, Arbalests, Siege Rams, Heavy Scorpions and Elite Plums, are the only good units Mayans have, so they do need to be extra good.
You have to account that Mayans have no Cavalry or Champions, so their only lategame Melee options are Halberdiers and Eagles. They do need their Eagles to be good, as to have a good screen for their Archers, and a good unit to hunt down counter-Archer units, like Skirmishers, since they do not have a Scout Trash line to do it.
You also have to account that they even lack Siege Engineers, so counter-ranging is not very efficient for them.
Indians have no Knights, but their Camels are the best, they have FU Cavalry Archers, FU Hussars, and Hand Cannoneers to deal with Infantry.
The Indians not having Knights is a weakness, but is not something they cannot play around.
Weakening El Dorado eagles would actually leave Mayans with incredibly weak Melee, that would probably kill off the civ in competitive formast. They already have a very hard time against Huskarls, for example.
In many ways, they already are. Aztec Eagles are much stronger against things taht usually counter Eagles.
They also rival Cavaliers and can even beat Knights in the Castle Age, just due to production speed alone (and because Food is more important than Gold in early Castle Age).
I tend to disagree, Parth.
Mayans is a very balanced Civ mostly directly because of El Dorado and Obsidian Arrows exactly as they are (not to mention those 15% longer resource mines!). Incan Eagles are also rather beefy because of all that extra pierce armor. No one ever suggests that be tweaked.
People do it here all the time, but that it a sophist’s argument and you know it.
Eagles are scounts+ not Knights/Heavy Cav
I’ll let it slide… this time!
Honestly that’s because Incan eagles are meh, Aztecs bring on the offense with the extra attack letting them take the melee fights better which the base EEW is not very good at. Mayan eagles get the much needed HP, something eagle as a melee unit lacks sorely.
The incan eagle gets armor, something an eagle already is good at, the HP helps the eagle much more