Entire Race Counters or Bad match ups (Post Imperial)

Of course its a subjective and situational idea, but I thought I’d make a short list of matchups which inherently favour one race over another if both players have equal skill in the ranked map pool. And Im expecting people to disagree. I’ll add to the list as I have time/think of the matchups.

The idea is that certain races when faced off against others, will have a much harder time due to lacking certain units to counter the opposing race, meaning it is even more important to beat that race before it reaches post imperial. It doesnt mean its an auto loss, just saying its a harder game than if the player used a different race. Recommendations welcome.


Huns < Inca (Racial units hard countered by opposing race, weak 2HS)
Mayans < Goths (No champs, gold intensive eagles + plumes)
Turks < Mongols (No counters to mangudai, poor trash)

Less Hard:
Japan, Vikings, Porto < Mongols (Mangudai + Drill hard counters everything)
Mongols < Berbers (Genitours + Cav spam)
Ethiopians < Goths (Huskarl soft counters everything, BBC to take out massed scorps)
Turks < Khmer (No trash, weak spears, UU weak vs racial strength)
Tatar< Goths, Inca (huskarls + pikes beat tatar cav cost effectively, kamayuks)

I’d say Huns vs Inca is the only matchup that fits here. Ethiopians can still do it with Shotels+scorpions. And Jannisaries and camels can deal with Elephants, also decent Turk monks

we’ve had a number of people say shotel works vs huskarls, but i have yet to see proof that they do, all the tests i run, shotel = huskarl, and surprisingly huskarl was more likely to win larger battles, at the same time the huskarl is actually cheaper than the shotel. also scorpions vs huskarl? maybe the recently buffed scorpion

generic camels (not heavy) with jannisaries can beat elephants on a cost effective basis? i dont see how thats possible… you’re only doing 14 damage with the camel, and 15 with the jan. while the ele which isnt that much more expensive (post imperial) than the camel is doing 17 to each camel

Shotels + Torsion engines heavy scorpions say hi

I keep hearing you saying that you believe heavy scorpions are bad vs huskarls when they really are not. And most definitely not Ethiopians ones.


ive added BBC to the break down, maybe if you guys have examples of shotel + scorps beating a goth post imperial?

I meant shotels supported with scorpions, 1v1 shotel does more damage but has less HP, the scorpions should help even this fight out

But Turks do get FU heavy camels?

Well then Ethiopians have better BBC with siege engineers and torsion engines


How do Mayans beat Goths in post imp?
Things also depend on the map. Open, closed, hybrid, full water, …?

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Completely depends on how much damage Mayans do before post imp.

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lots of plumes and El dorado eagles as a meatshield


Jannis do quite good against eles, since they are so fat they dont miss them 11.
Seriusly with 0 frame delay its quite easy to micro Elite Jannis against eles as long as you have a mass of them.
I really wouldnt not go for heavy camel though.

In a 1v1 with Hussar, Elite Jannis and BBC i feel comfortable. In 1v1 Khmer great strength is mostly their eco and not their elephants.

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i just played a game with turks and couldnt upgrade to heavy camels (yes i know this sounds nuts, but i seriously kept checking to see and i couldnt upgrade them) , and didnt go back to check the wiki so i apologise for that

the goth only has to hit the massed scorpions (much easier than the ethiopian having to snipe the BBCs). but i will try this next time in black forest… its still a harder match up than using another faction imo

And pray you can hold on.

yeah thats true, well if people mention them ill add them, but since i thought of this list ive been finding other people’s lists… and unsurprisingly other people have had similar ideas

ive never seen them perform well vs huskarls (yeah maybe if the opponent blobs all the karls into one blob and sends them all together, but havent seen them successfull in pitched battles with huskalrs spamming in from other rax, and approaching in staggered formation

The question is about post imp match ups :wink:

Other matchups that come to mind:

Mongols vs Japanese, Vikings, Portuguese… (probably some more)

I guess Mongols vs Berbers in post imp is another impossible matchup

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This is a common misconception. I think Post Imp Mongols are super fine against berbers because of drill siege.

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yeah which is why i mentioned in the opening comment that certain races need to specifically win the game sooner, for example a turk could usually quite happily boom in black forest vs huns (just an example) whereas if they did the same vs khmer, they could theoretically run into an even tougher game than if they faced a different faction…

or more specifically mayans could boom to post imperial and spam eagles vs huns and win more easily

And the point is if you did a lot of damage before they got to post imp your better off then if you did no damage before they got their