is that because of the meatshield infantry for japan and vikings?
i know you probably realised it, but its not about impossible, but just harder match ups, but yeah i guess the berber cav spam + genitours (or cam archers?)would be tougher
I think you missunderstood (or i worded poorly). If Mongols get to Elite Mangudai and drill siege, those civs are dead. Can add some more to that list, like italians ( yes you have genoese, but you still need to deal with drill siege ram and potentially SO)
yeah i just misunderstood. makes total sense though, i reckon mongols would be a tough matchup for a lot of races in general due to its meta standing, Ive added turks vs mongols (turks get slaughtered)
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super fine is an exaggeration. Mangudai literally acts as a bonus for Mongols in post imp and camel archer denies that by existing. Berber eco is better in imp and I don’t buy that rams are that strong vs Berbers
Its most likely harder than Ethiopian vs Goth
yeah i agree, hadnt thought of it before, added to the list, also divided the list into hardest (huns etc) and not as hard (ethiopians etc)
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was thinking this hopefully intuitively takes into account that water civs will hard counter other civs, and those types of things so wont be mentioned… but malay with a few lakes (not a water map per se) vs certain races is definitely one…
With siege rams/ hussar at the front the camel archer hardly get to fight the Elite Mangudai though. And once you have a few drill SO mixed in, it gets really tough for Berbers.
Now this is Post Imperial, theres hardly enough ressources for all that in 1v1 etc… and Camel archer + heavy camel/hussar can still fight that. But I would probably even give the edge to Mongols.
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Sipahi Cav Archers counter Mangudai. In the Castle Age, Janissaries are also a counter.
Huns have Paladin, the most efficient Melee unit in the game, and they are FU.
This is the only case of a hard civ counter, that you presented.
It is possible, Mongols just have to go for Hussar + Siege, with a few Heavy Camels added in.
And Incas have Kamayuks who wreck Paladin in equal numbers(atleast when I tried) with their stacking and much faster attack rate than Halbs. Cav archers also struggle against Kamayuks with their 6 pierce armor and 1 range+decent speed
and Berbers have better Camels and Hussars (Mongol hussars and Camels melt to Camel archers), also all cheaper than Mongol ones, there’s no way Mongols can go head on with cavalry + cav archers against Berbers
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Just go around the Kamayuks, they are not very fast, and raid, which is the main strength of Huns.
and what you doing if the Incas go Kamayuks+Siege, raiding isn’t always the possiblity with walls and castles. Again Huns should always try to win fast in castle age against most civs but this discussion is about post imp wars and Huns can’t deal with Incas’ various options
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Italians vs Turks also could be hard matchup for Turks.
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Condos would wreck a lot of teh Turks main units, and Pavise makes sure Genoese Crossbowmen annihilate Sipahi Cav Archers.
True enough.
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I agree with your list. These are very hard matchups.
That’s why I don’t think balancing the civs for 1v1 will ever be possible, without avoiding all extremes, and making most civs close to the center. I find a more reasonable target should be to balance these civs for average 3v3 or 4v4 games. Extreme civs can exist in that type of game, and these impossible matchups are not detrimental. The balancing target should be to get civs picked close to 1/35 of the time, and to get their win rates close to 50%.
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Other hard counter is Tatars < Goths (Halb+EHusk), (Vikings anticav bonus), Inca
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Indians < Mayans
Is one of the hardest counters ever
Siege ram+Hussar+Jannisaries definitely can deal with Italians. Turk power spike is pretty significant, Italians don’t really have any good land bonuses so Turks should be ahead
Tatars get Hand canoneers and good siege, they’re not Huns
Elephant archers counter the archers, the only weakness is early imp El dorado eagles. But this reply is useless since this is a trollbait
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How?
FU Skirmisher and Elephant Archer ensure Mayans have trouble against the Indians, not the other way around.
Indians also have Champions with Supplies, which beat Mayan El Dorado Eagles, even without Platemail.
Not to mention Shatagini HC.
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Champs + skirms say hi.
Mix in elephant archers late and watch them not do anything
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