its only some crossbows that worked that way, and it kind of shows you why guns ended up replacing the crossbows: it was straight up to cumbersome to use.
while i do think Pavis crossbows should be a unit for italians i dont think a 2 man team (esp for 2 pop) makes super much sense.
For sure, but Genoese Crossbowmen definitely did operate that way (in 3-man teams, actually).
Not going to disagree with you about the history of crossbows vs. firearms, youâre absolutely right there.
But for a unique unit I think it would add a little extra flair to the Italians without them just getting another crossbowman (or worse, a generic crossbowman that is just a Guard upgrade to Genoese).
Obviously for 2 pop your unit would have a higher hit point pool, like mantlets do, making them worth the extra cost and/or pop space.
You could make them along the lines of the Carolean/Rifle Rider. Donât let Italians have musks or regular crossbowmen â you give them the Genoese Instead that have slight bonuses to infantry and cav at range (nothing too crazy). High ranged resists due to the pavise, a higher HP pool due to the two pop, but very weak in melee so youâd need to employ pikes/halbs/dragoons to protect them.
here is a crazy idea for them:
long reload (say 5 seconds) once they fired they turn around to present their back to the enemy, has very high range resist and reasonable hp while the dmg is a only average for the unit.
also i imagine Italians also would get a unique sword man would guess it would be an anti heavy infantry swordman with some beffy stats.
I like that, I like the anti heavy infantry swordsman idea too (this is what rodeleros shouldâve been instead of a fast pikeman!).
1740-1830*
Until 1657 (more than 200 years of the timeframe of this game), Prussia remained a fief of the Kingdom of Poland. It can be said that Prussia became interesting only thanks to the reforms of Frederick the Great (1740â1786). So Prussia fits this game, but only as Age up to Age 4.
Yours tooâŠ
What are you talking to me man?
Will you now name Frederick the Great as Maximilian I?
Will you name Berlin as Vienna?
âŠ
Then letâs make the Danes a revolution for the Swedes âŠ
Suits you?
Then letâs make the Persians a revolution for the Ottomans - Zamburak will get and Sepoy (rename to Qizilbash Musketeers) âŠ
Suits you?
And what?
THIS IS NOT DESTROYING THE GAME !!!
DESTROYING THE GAME IS DESTROYING THE CIVS CONCEPT !!!
ADDING A NEW MECHANICS FOR GERMANY (potentially also for Italians) THIS IS NOT A DESTRUCTION, JUST A MORE ENTERTAINMENT !!!
I proposed this as one of the options in Age up for Italians.
Of course you did, everyone suggests Genoese Crossbowmen as a unique unit due to their historical fame and inclusion in AoE2 as one of the Italian unique units.
Itâs the idea to make them like a mantlet (in the sense of being a 2-man team in a single unit) that Iâm suggesting here, which I have not seen before.
It would be cool to have an Archer unit tgat is a team, to be honest.
I know of a recent addition to the game that proves you wrong.
They can be repurposed in a new civ, with new ones created for the old one. The German civ represents the HRE, Frederick the Great and Berlin are poor choices to represent that. Their replacement has no effect on the gameplay of the civ.
One of the strongest military forces in Europe in its time isnt enough for you?
Your caps lock button seems to be stuck.
You are changing an excisting civ in the way it functions. If you want to add new mechanics do so in a new civ, not an old one.
That expansion proves that you can add anything to this game.
Austrians are essential in Europe.
Not only entertainment is important, overall civ counts.
It is simpler and more interesting to add Austrians as a new civ than the Prussians themselves. What would be then with the rest of Germany ???
To make a new civ out of it?
YES
Sometimes it likes to push itself in 
You have civ Germans. The capital of the united Germany was Berlin. Frederick the Great contributed to making Prussia the power that united Germany a hundred years after his reign. The HRE flag unites the Germans for most of the time frame in AoE 3. By adding the mechanics I have presented, it will be possible to honor German states that were not united. Age up to Age 5 are unification options.
The Austrian Empire fought a united Germany. This empire was not interested in integrating with this entity. Austria preferred to focus on eastern Europe, on the Hungarian crown, which was not in the HRE.
The Austrian Empire was significantly different from the rest of the Germans. Itâs a real pity you canât see it âŠ
sounds like a good Idea
The German civ does not represent a united Germany, it represents the HRE. If any capital city for the HRE was to be declared it certainly wasnt Berlin. Frederick the Great made Prussia great, not Germany, and certainly not the HRE which is he depicted leading ingame. He mostly waged war against Austria and the HRE. There is no reference to the united German empire ingame.
True, but the german civ represented ingame is based on the HRE before unification occured. And is mostly foccused on the 30 years war period where the Habsburg were leading the HRE.
I do see it. We just disagree about how Austria is or should be represented.
As it is we have several references to the Austrians as the leaders of the HRE around the thirty years war period in the form of units and cards. The Germans can even revolt to Hungary to represent a shift of focus to eastern europe. The Hungarian revolt even contains all the new units you suggested for the Austrians. You may not like how Austria is represented in a more archaic way, but it is still represented with a revolt to make it more modern.
In a ideal world we wouldnt have gotten this German civ but both a Austrian and a Prussian civ, with the HRE units being relegated to mercenary status. They chose to make a HRE civ however and theyre unlikely to rework or remove it, I can hardly see them doing that to an established civ. And as it stands it is just much easier to create a seperate Prussian civ and make the Germans more Austrian than it is vice versa,
In the end I think the most likely outcome is no changes to the German civ and Prussia and Austria remaining absent. With the developement team being satisfied with their current representation. But then again the US came as a big surprise out of nowhere so who know what the future brings?
While I mostly agree with you I dont think there are âseveralâ references. As I wrote elsewhere there are 1 or 2 cards which are directly linked to Habsburgs or Vienna or Austria.
I agree with you that finding the right way how to include Prussia, Austria and the rest of Germany (or even HRE) is difficult.
The funnest thing would be ifthere would be no European DLC and thus there would be no need to solve this 
Rifleman using axe in hand-to-hand combat.
Very speed cavalryman. He throws a knife in a ranged fight.
Highlander from Carpathian Mountains. Use Shepherdâs axe.
It should be Turin. Rome was one of the last territories to be conquered by the kingdom of Italy.
While Turin was the capital of the kingdom of piedmont-sardinia, who later on conquered the peninsula.
I know that Rome is more famous and evocative, but itâs a bit of a stretch. Another option would be Florence, that too was the capital of the kingdom.
Bersaglieri are actually more like a musketeer, a shock infantry.
If you want a skirmish infantry, then you should use the alpine.
Also, italians were never famous for neither their pikes nor halabardiers, so you can have the standard pike, and remove the halbs. Instead I suggest that the crossbows would be their royal guard unit, since it was a very common weapon in the peninsula, and several mercenaries units were employed through all Europe. Itâs also more unique, since there isnât a guard xbow (the portos need a church upgrade).
Carabinieri are actually out of the timeframe of the game, they are too recent.
Elmeti and dragoons could be enough. However, the dragon itself could be the royal guard unit, and becomes carabiners.
Another option is to give them simply hussars, so you can give as UU the bersaglieri (musketeers) and the alpine (skirmishers).
Not sure about the random crates, it seems⊠random (no pun intended)
The half price docks and markets are good, I thought it myself time ago. You can trow in there trading posts too.
As for the age up, it would be nice that it is similar to the US, with the several states of the peninsula, but you donât have 50 of them (about the half).
So you either do a mix of the politicians and states, or you use cities, then you can find 50 of them.
A cool thing could be to give them the embassy. I know it sounds weird, but the Italians were able to unify because they have the cunning to ally with a lot of European powers. Also, since some states were often neutral (like Venice) they often acted as mediator between other European powers.
Another idea may be that the explorer and ships have more line of sight, since Columbus and Vespucci were both Italian explorers.
no one says this has to be fixed in the DLC.
This is what I was wondering. I chose Rome because it is the most famous option. Rome became the capital of Italy in 1871 (10 years after the creation of the united Kingdom of Italy), so Rome could easily be the capital of this civ.
Bersaglieri I would prefer it to be UU rather than the Royal Guard upgrade.
I agree with this crossbowman.
I thought pikes and halabardiers suited Italians. Which melee units are more suited to the Italians?
I thought Dragoon should be the Royal Guard and be called Carabinieri 
Itâs a great idea. What could a third UU be like?
What I meant was that Italians would receive an extra crate for each shipment (with a random resource and amount of it). It would be like receive Uhlans with Home City shipments, at Germans.
It would be a tribute to Venice, a trading power.
Above I wrote my proposal for a unique Age up mechanic for Italians (also for Germans).
It seems strange to me. In addition, Italians would have a lot of special features (including the unique Age up mechanics, free crates for each shipment and cheaper Docks, Markets and Trading Posts).
I think Amerigo Vespucci would be the best Explorer for the Italians civ.
His name itself is very Italian 
A bit too late in my opinion. The kingdom of Italy existed already by some years, so Turin would be more appropriate.
But probably a lot of people just want to see Rome, hell we have Washington so all the common sense is already been trow out of the windowâŠ
I mean, they used both, but as mercenaries mostly. If you need to give just one give them the pikes maybe with an age up that enables the guard upgrade, even they donât have it as a standard option.
As for the bersaglieri, they could work as a UU, but they need to fill the muskets role, not the skirms role.
Then I missunderstand it 
I donât know if they need a third UU, but consider that they should also have the gallery instead of the caravel (since that was the Mediterranean warship) and they could have the Galeass too instead of the galleon.
Columbus too was Italian, itâs enaugh to call it Colombo.
Yeah I saw it now, apart from the bonuses (that requires a post of their own) basically you are re-using some territories multiple time. Like you use the 2 sicilies kingdom, but also sicily, calabria and naples, which were part of the 2 sicily kingdom.
Then corsica, even if it have Italians origins (were under Genoa) wasnât in Italian hands for a lot of time, and maleta never were.
EDIT:
Just wondering, shouldnt be south Tirol part of Austria?
South tirol had some italian minority, so even if it was conquered just after WW1, it was part of the so called âTerritori Irridentiâ or all the territories that had italians minorities or majorities that wasnât part of the kingdom of Italy.
That also justify the Istria, Dalmatia, Corsica, Trento and Trieste, part of Swizerland too and some others. All territories that at the time had an heavy italian speaking population.
Even Albania may be included, not because the fascists counquered it, but because it had close ties with the venitians, since the latter helped to resist the ottomans, and the albanians served as merchenaries as stradiots for Venice.
