I’ve seen a lot of people defending the glut of variant “civilizations” by saying that the developers are clearly starved for funding and doing the best they can with limited funding. That doesn’t really add up to me considering the fact Sultans Ascend was supposedly the best selling DLC in the franchise history, but even if it’s true, it’s still not a good defence of the current direction.
If the goal is to cut costs by reusing assets, they can still make actual new civilizations. Just do what they’ve done throughout the franchise and use shared assets for geographically or cultural similar civs. I don’t think anyone would mind too much if a Scottish civilization used mostly the same building and unit models as the English, or if a Korean or Vietnamese civilization used Chinese architecture, or if Venetians shared assets with Byzantines.
I play Age games because I want to explore the history and culture of a wide variety of nations and empires from across the world. I’m not interested in every random noble house, political dynasty, or military order from countries that are already represented. I think the developers have fully lost sight of what this franchise is supposed to be.
If you’re someone who only cares about gameplay, the difference may not seem relevant, but a lot of us are here because we do care find history and culture fascinating, and the current direction of the game is failing us.
For example, how would you make a Viking civ from the current assets?
You already got a few unit and building models. All you need to do is blend them into the model set of English. That’s ironically already more UU than the OG English.
Too many shared assets? No worries. Like it or not they will reach the stage of having to share assets.
Use the Age 1 Anglo-Saxon voiceline. That sounded Viking enough. Does not change through ages? No problem. Neither did Japanese or Byzantines.
What’s left to be done:
Music
Landmarks
Some unique mechanisms
And maybe they cannot even finish these
This is a problem many “gameplay” people overlooked.
If the game is locked to variants, you cannot extend its scope by any means. You cannot even include Spain or Italy or Poland. Not to mention native Americans. You’ll see the same architecture, same voices, same music over and over again, and each feels more and more trivial.
Gameplay-wise they can still be very different. But I feel Italy vs Spain is still thematically more exciting than House of Capet vs House of Valois
Revenue doesn’t tend to get re-invested directly back into the product. They’re not an indie developer. Their profit is Microsoft’s profit.
I’m, uh, pretty sure people would mind.
The issues folks tend to have with variants is either the liberties they take with history, and / or not being enough value for money. You’re saying medieval Scots and the medieval English, at odds for centuries and speaking pretty different languages (through Gaelic - before modern Scottish took early root) . . . would be acceptable to folks who dislike variants?
I mean, I’m not someone who dislikes variants and so I can’t speak for these people. But I doubt it’d be a workable compromise.
That said, I’d love more divergent architecture sets. So kinda the opposite direction to this suggestion anyway
It started, this is the fall of AOE IV, variants civilizations is the worst thing I ve seen in a RTS, AOE IV just lost their identity with moba heroes never seen before and variants civs.
I’m happy about that though! I like playing AoE 2, it would suck if any of the games overshadowed each other. They are all fun to play, and AoE 4 being at the same level or just below means that AoE 2 is doing well.
Not that it matters much, but it did surpass AoE 2 at launch
More on topic with the thread:
From an AoE 2 era perspective I can see where you’re coming from. Back in the day having a unique unit skin and a wonder with a regional pallette was enough to depict a civilization. Just having the voice lines match the language of the civ was enough.
I think these latest variants actually represent a push towards what you’re asking for though. Vikings have been ‘present’ in the game in the form of English MAA (huskarls) and Byzantine MAA (varangian guard). But they don’t have an identity of their own.
From the unique units to their buildings and tech tree, the Macedonian Dynasty variant has a very strong ‘viking’ identity. It gives space to rapidly expand what is available culturally without needing to make entirely new assets for every small thing.
Not only that, it gives room for future additions to play off of these minor factions for historical battles.
Some people have made requests for the addition of the Vijayanagara Empire. Some historical background on that is the Tughlaq dynasty pushed south into the Indian peninsula all the way to the southern most tip. The skirmishes there, and the reconquest by people from that region, completely shape the Vijayanagara Empire.
In many ways the variants create a direct pathway into telling stories about currently uninvolved civs. If you care about history and culture I’m sure you can see how they actually empower those things. They lay a foundation for interweaving stories that connect the different factions with each other.
Especially since they are making the variants focused on specific historical events rather than pseudo-history/fantasy, such as Jeanne d’Arc or Zhu Xi Legacy. (Not that I think a little fantasy takes away from the spirit of age of empires)
Ultimately, variants exist so they can expand the roster without compromising on their vision of the base civs. Evolving language between ages, hours of music that transitions dynamically with gameplay. Unique unit models and buildings, sometimes having more than 10 unique units in a roster. Variants exist so they don’t compromise on that vision.
Which part is confusing?
Do Japanese and Byzantine have evolving voice lines?
What historical event did Zhu Xi’s Legacy even represent?
Edit: okay. Do you mean it is or is not fantasy? Because JDA however poorly designed as a civ does represent a real historical event but ZXL is not.
What do you mean by vital civ calls? Almost every person who has responded to the expansion announcement has felt poorly about the lack of a base civ addition?
Sorry to combine this into one post, just trying to avoid a torrent of responses:
Yes? It’s on the wiki I just checked.
Both, and that second part is more subjective than anything else.
I am referencing the major leaderboard Gods who have some level of say and influence on what the outcome of the game is. Its almost as if I was so good at the game, what I want, I get?
I can’t mod, I’d like to. No one will hold my hand.
Oh dude the top level guys have a mixed bag of responses. Wam put out a video today where he shares disappointment, corvinus and valdemar are trying to see the bright side. All of them make it pretty clear they didn’t have a hand in making this happen.
And on modding, yeah that scene has been hit pretty hard. We don’t have the ability to add custom models, and making our own civs means replacing an existing one. Short version: modding sucks right now
If you read that wikipedia page for one second you’ll find he lived in Southern Song. So half of the dynasties of the Chinese civ has nothing to do with his “legacy”
And he is a scholar bureaucrat. His “legacy” definitely did not involve Shaolin monks or Yuan dynasty horsemen
They didn’t evolve. They remain the same language. Only the content changed. Unlike the OG civs which had obvious changes in vocabulary, pronunciation and accent.
And both Greek and Japanese are very well documented languages throughout ages.
They could have done a decent campaign for a civ at least, in place of 2 variants. It would have catered to more people.
But then there’s the price issue and the comparison with The Sultans Ascend, which was already true for Knights of Cross and Rose.
20€ for 4 variants I wish never existed, maps I know nothing about (may be bad, bugged or meh), 6 biomes and 1 game mode? Call me suspicious. Actually the last 2 things interest me some. But 20 eurobucks? No sirree.
I paid 15€ for The Sultans Ascend to get 2 new actual civs and a campaign, despite the ugly variants.
The campaign in Sultan’s Ascend was already reduced from documentary cutscenes to powerpoints. Nobody complained. Then reduced to individual scenarios. Nobody complained. I think people can adjust to lower budget campaigns very quickly. Yet they cannot even do that. And charge you more.
Like people were already prepared to embrace lower production value yet they still fell below that expectation.
This is very disappointing. Over the years we have been busy lowering the bar for them, when it’s totally their duty to manage and address player expectations.
