Every civ deserves the depth and love china got!

Let me start this topic with clarifying that i very much enjoy this game and i think it is a great step to revitalizing the RTS Genre as a whole. It’s also not a balance discussion. I’m very much aware of the unbalanced units especially for china(Clocktower Siege/Bombards, Firelancers/Rus Cav Archer etc) and mechanics(Mongols). I’ve been playing this game since launch, some campaign but mostly online. I’ve played every faction so far, some obviously more then others(HRE,France, Delhi lately china). So i think i have a fairly good grasp on them and i enjoy them all in their own way. Through this though i couldnt help but notice that some factions do have much more unique playstyles/ tech and special units than others. China is the clear standout, followed by mongols, rus delhi and french then abbasid. HRE and England feel the most bland have the least unique techs, and the least unique units. This doesnt seem fair and especially in the case of the HRE a bit off given that it is the most ethnically and culturally diverse faction in the game( just look how many different countries are in the former HRE territory). But the HRE is still more developed then england which sometimes feels barebones. These factions still play their own style, but it doesnt have the flavor or uniqueness then china or delhi. Thats why i think the next patches(first bugs and balancing ofcourse) and dlcs should focus on fleshing out the existing faction before adding new ones. Otherwise i fear that the gap between the factions in development and depth will only widen and this cant be good gamedesign.

What do you guys think?

I’m curious what you have to say.

Thx for reading!

3 Likes

I’m not sure many non-competitive players would enjoy the entry-level Civs being more difficult for them to make efficient use of.

As for myself, I wouldn’t mind some added risk vs reward for those Civs.

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HRE is so unfinished.

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Rus HA is mostly strong because they’re bugged. Attack faster than they should.

Chinese bombards are strong because its their civ trait and china starts only shine at imperial so past ages are behind other civs. Should this be changed? Sure why not. FL is effective against opponents that are not willing to prepare for them or slow reaction time. Its basically typical noobstomper unit but in lategame they’re just cannon fodder. So maybe rework is in necessary.

I too love the idea behind the china how things work out but its also frustrating how IO works. Its heavily bugged and annoying to use. Also the tax collection is very poor bonus longer game goes on and if buildings are destroyed the gold is gone. Would be same as if Delhi lost blacksmith they would lose all the tech they researched and had to start over again.

Plus basically all our landmarks are ■■■■ outside of clocktower and spirit way has it niche uses when spamming FL as cannon fodder. Cheaper to make them to protect important stuff than other crap

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I agree that china got the most love of all civs and prob the most work went into them.
But that does not mean the other civs got nothing for them. I think the other civs full potential need still to be unleashed by better balancing the units/techs/landmarks of the civs. There could be so much more to discover.
The forum is full of good suggestions to make each civ more interesting to play, it is up to the devs now. I hope they make the effort and completely redesign some landmarks and techs and not just change their values.

There are also a lot of players, that appreciate a simpler more straightforward civ that is easier to “master”.

When all civs have more options and you find yourself playing vs a rly diverse civ like china could be, it is also fun to just play against them and adapt to their big amount of different strategies.

Of course they wanted to sell the game in china… that’s why china has more units and unique dinasty system… They want $$$ regardless of game quality.

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What are you talking about? If china reached Castle Age its already game over. They need serious nerf. With recent buff to Zhuge Nu it has become a strong civ in early game as well. Zhuge Nu can counter armored units and other civs only unlock crossbows in Age 3. Also china gets free castle in Age 2 using landmark, making it very hard to raid early game. If devs want to make china so broken late game they need to cripple it early game. Just choosing china shouldn’t be a win condition in team games.

They are still weak early game.

No, they counter unarmoured units, as per their description. Zhuge Nu are bad against armour.
The only reason anyone thinks they aren’t that bad against armour is when they have an upgrade advantage. They have the attack upgrade, and the armour doesn’t have the ranged armour upgrade, effectively doubling their attack.

I wouldn’t describe Barbican as a castle or a keep. Hardly a great landmark, either. It’s what you need at the time, because you’re vulnerable.

BS.

What is your main civ?

You got weird understanding what is considered buff. They reduced the cost of zhuge nu but they also nerffed their HP and they’re still slower than archers and less range than archers and most certainly they do not counter armored units. Yes they deal more dmg to armored than archers but they do not counter them. Plus they’re still cost gold, wood and food while archers are only food and wood.

“free castle” You mean barbican of the sun? Worst defensive landmark in game. Its nothing but bigger outpost.

https://aoe4world.com/stats/civilizations/chinese#win-rate-game-length

Feel free to check other civs. China has the worst winrates sub 30mins games.

Zhuge Nu still suck. if they worked like a crosbow unit agaist heavey then they would shine.
You just rush to castle and prey ad china. then win

I refuse to believe that a developer played some games as England, built Abbey of Memes on Age 1, and said “my vision for this lewdmark is great and works as intended”. No one must have played it in-house past the concepting phase.

HRE on the other hand barely ever left the drawing board in its entirety.

None of the civs are particularly deep. But the devs have promised the future us bright, so I’m looking forward to it.

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Go check the win rate. Mongol have insame win rate like over 60% in >1400 elo round and Rus got 50% above. Rest of civs all below 50. So I could say they want $$$$$ from Mongol and Russia as well?
Especially Mongol Stone troops and Rus Cav Archer( They literally superman Cav bow even stronger than crossbow and no gold required. Meanwhile all Chinese dynasty units require all 3 resources).
I don’t even mention about Rus sitting at home to get gold and Mongol auto farming stone, 70 woods tower . And ENG 7+2 range Longbow wall push in feduel.

Nest of bees are useless( block by walls and won’t fire when out of the angel)
Fire lancer?(In 1v1 If your opponent really pushing you that you don’t have chance to produce it, But I agree to nerf it.)
Zhu genu ? ( if you find that they going to rush you. Don’t really need amour units just rider with amour upgrade with archers could counter it)
Only Clocktower is decent landmark for Chinese. But like I said. If your opponent really pushing you like ENG and Mongol in fedual. )

What’s your point about"SELL GAME IN CHINA"? I am telling you that relic did many things in COH2 in order to disgusting Chinese players. Even though there still many Chinese players out there.

People buy AOE4 just for commemorate their old time in AOE and AOE2 in China regardless of quality.
Not because those dynesty and Zhuge nu ■■■■.

No need to rush castle just +1 armour upgrade with rider and Archer. But rush castle also an option.

Yep China got love to have 50% below winrate in 1v1 overall.