The animation quality is improved from what I´ve played
Bro not offence but you need lens
As I already explained I have a wide screen that makes it look further but theres a difference and it might be due to the cinematic mode though.
As I said all the things you are describing should be fixed and improved and we have been calling them fot about 1 year. But it brings me hope to see those little changes and see developers more eager to appear and reply certain comments and questions. Let´s watch tomorrows stream in twitch and do mention of all those things you said and hear what they have to say. They are probably fixing all those issues.
Then why do some units fire from their head? Or their waists? Or they feet? Does the “good approximation” change depending on how the devs are feeling in the morning?
I’d go and dig up the screenshots the guy shared but I don’t want to spend 5 hours going through old threads, lol
I’m not saying that them doing this in 2021 is acceptable, I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of complaining about this and not AoE2
Again, that’s precisely what happens when you try to approximate fixed points in units in that live in a “fake-3D” world . You can’t be exact because you have to simulate things like arrows which move in 3 axes, but you only have 2 axes to play with.
Let’s try with pictures.
This arbalester started life as a 3D model, which devs could rotate, flip, animate, etc… Now, let’s say in the 3D modelling software you define the red cross as the arrow’s “exit point”:
But now you are “flattening” the model to work in a 2D world, so you pre-record certain positions and animations (2D sprites) to import into the 2D engine and you lose an axis: depth. In fact you probably lose any semblance of shape besides a simple bitmap with transparency. So the point that you defined earlier was a waste of time because you can’t possibly calculate for all combinations of unit positions and arrow directions or even where the weapon is, for what is now an animated rectangle.
Depth in AoE II is simulated. Units don’t go behind buildings or become smaller as they go further away from the camera. When a soldier gets obscured by a mill, it’s simply because it’s higher up from the 4 tiles taken up by the mill. If it’s down from those tiles then it’s in front of the building. It’s simple 2D layering.
At the end of the day, when you don’t have to go through this 3D->2D conversion a lot of things are made easier and I can’t comprehend why it’s so hard to make arrows fire from bows in AoE IV besides simply not caring to define those points. Same as with the bows themselves not being animated at all. It’s lazy.
I agree. The term haters is not a correct usage. People who hate something don’t continue to add constructive criticism. And the people who do nothing but complain…I wouldn’t call them haters. I would call them whiners.
I don’t lump people who give constructive criticism as haters.
I’m primarily talking about the “these things will never change, the game is doomed” crowd.
Yeah, for real. The devs are clearly listening, they’ve been showing that even more recently. Really gets on my nerves when those certain people just say it’s all a failure. I mean, No Man’s Sky was shit at first but it got better because of the criticism. Same with the new Battlefront 2. Same with Battlefield V as well.
Game development is an art. That’s like looking at an artist draw and they say it’s a disaster.
That’s nice and all and I’m glad devs are listening, but that doesn’t mean that releasing an incomplete game in the hopes of iterating on it in the future is how you treat fans and customers. How would they fix terrible destruction animations in the next 20 days? We didn’t play a “beta” and a “technical stress test” – we played a demo of a game releasing in less than 3 weeks. A beta often takes place years before release, or at least it should if your goal is to make a piece of art. It’s nice of you to compare this to games that made the mistake of launching way too early and then tried to salvage what they did; however, what’s to say this doesn’t become Cyberpunk rather than No Man’s Sky? Or is just completely abandoned?
Who could forget the great sculptors and artists of the Renaissance, with their “beta” paintings and busts that they then spent years finishing as it was displayed in the halls of their patrons? C’mon.
Fundamentally, I agree with you in terms of what the bar here is though: The team developing AoE4 is tasked with more than just producing a game that is fun to play, they are tasked with producing a piece of art – one that sets the bar for the coming decade in terms of the RTS genre and inspires an entire new generation of RTS fans.
Nah, what you are doing is practicing some weird “what-about-ism”. AoE2 completely blew people’s minds (without even using a 3d engine!) when it released back in 1999 (I know, I was one of them). It set the gold standard, not only for the RTS genre, but for what a great game should be. So, rather than saying that you’re not happy that people are mad about something now that they weren’t mad about back then, ask yourself the following questions: Is AoE4, in its current state, an absolutely mind-blowing game that sets the standard for the industry for the next 5-10 years? Is it so visually breathtaking that no other strategy game really even compares to it? That’s what AoE2 was.
As much as I keep trying to get hyped for this game and as much as I would love to love it, I just don’t get any “wow” moments here, with the only exception perhaps being sound design.
Dude I gave up reasoning with him. His hypocrisy argument is something along the lines of “Hey you folks didn’t complain that cars didn’t have airbags back in 1950, and now that you know that the new 2021 car doesn’t have one, you start complaining.”
I already mentioned numerous times that the arrow issue right now is mostly fine, and they can tweak it further properly post launch. It was really bad in the Fan Preview. While it still isn’t perfect now, it’s good enough for now.
I agree. The current state of the arrows require further polish, but won’t make anyone stop playing the game or seriously complain about it as a major issue.
They’ve improved on this a bit btw. I noticed some of the archer units properly pulling on their bows. Again, archer animations are one of the weakest points of the game graphically - but I suspect this is something they’ll hopefully improve with time and not leave as is.
Yeah, there’s always a few users on here who have some kind of single-minded devotion to deflect any criticism of AoE4 with what-about-ism. Smart move to not waste time with those folks.
Of course I agree with you that the arrow issue isn’t a make or break issue for the game per se, but I do think truly refined games pay attention to these kind of details. I’m just still missing those “wow” moments that I – perhaps naively – expected from this game.
Also, all hail the noob! What are your thoughts on a competitor channel where the fez is Bosnian? Just messing of course, keep up the good work!
Bosnians are our brothers, no competition here. Thanks mate.
I think this is a sentiment quite a few share for sure, but I sympathize with the devs a bit on this one. Make it too different, and people will complain. Make it too similar, and people will complain. Getting that sweet spot is tough. Making something graphically stellar while being able to run on older machines is not as easy. I personally would’ve loved tweaks or different directions myself as well, but I think they did okay so far. I’d rather have a safer game that works properly for the majority, than a Cyberpunk-like release that tries to push the boundaries on everything - but ends up disappointing everyone. So while I agree with you on this, I still am happy that AoE4 didn’t turn out to be a fiasco and kill any future the franchise may have had.
I do fundamentally agree that this release won’t be a fiasco or genre-killing, but I would happily accept a 6 month delay if it came with further refinement. Notably, I did have fun playing the game, particularly in the Technical Stress Test, which is obviously one of the key components to success.
I obviously agree that pleasing everyone is a futile endeavor, but I really did expect so much more graphically. Sure, they wanted broad appeal, but I’d rather they would have gone with a tried-and-true gameplay formula and high-end graphics, even perhaps using the game as motivator for that user on the fence about upgrading their rig. Don’t even get me started on how I wanted this game to actually align with the mood of the announcement trailer, where it truly seemed that we would be getting a gritty historical RTS – I mean they freaking got Charles Dance to do the narration! Alas, I’ll have to live with this “bright and inviting world,” as the devs put it…
One thing that has surprised me in terms of feedback that seems to have been missing (or at least, feedback I never saw in the forums), was those “building is burning” icons/indicators. I think those are particularly immersion-breaking and cheesy. How do you feel about those?
I also can’t get over the destruction animations – it’s like a Lego Duplo castle collapsing. On top of that, I’ve started to lose hope that the UI will be modified in any way and that may actually be a bit of a make-or-break moment with this game, at least for me.
We have a good example, also from Microsoft, also released after a long hiatus and with arguably rougher fanbase and even more history: Flight Simulator. I mean, we’re talking about people who spend tens of thousands of dollars building their own cockpits at home. You don’t want to wrong them.
They were able to both keep the basics intact while also create a mind-blowing game. I bought it and there’s always that “wow” moment that I thought no game was ever going to get from me again. Whether it’s a plane flying overhead over your real house that you can instantly find in the sim (same flight number and all) or a very accurate copy of an incoming stormfront or a cloudy sunset over the Alps.
Even though I agree comparing a simulator to an RTS is a very long shot, you can still make AoE IV unmistakably AoE, modernize it but then really focus on one aspect to really push the bar forward. AoE IV played it safe, extremely so. I am inclined to think that sound design was that one groundbreaking thing, but I keep coming back to Battle for Middle Earth which I still play and runs great in an old laptop I have and I think to myself: “man, these folks really nailed sound and music back in 2004”.
Do you know that whenever a tech upgrade completes, there’s a voice that shouts that it’s ready? E.g. “we can use the flaming arrows now!”. It sounds like it comes from a random soldier and it’s incredibly immersive and useful at the same time. Similar to how the new AoE scouts shout when they see the enemy, which is a detail everybody loves.
What do you mean by “taking longer?” We’ve seen two builds, and havent played anything since the stress test. The next time were going to see a change is launch.
If they haven’t fixed it already then I’d say its likely because there are higher priority changes that theyre working on first.
Deciding what level of zoom is appropriate is a matter of contention as well.
The stress test had a zoom-out slightly higher than what was in the closed beta.
And it seemed for a lot of people, that was already appropriate.
We shall see if the devs have decided that people still want more zoom.
Couple of new videos posted on the official YouTube channel (Mongols reveal and Mongols vs Abbasid match). In both cases, bows are finally animated! Yey! One done, a few hundred to go:
You can see some bows retracted and others extended here:
Arrows are coming from the right place too! HOWEVER, you can see that the arrow releases before the bow collapses, so there’s still work to do with animation syncing:
