First Native Trade Post Should Ship An Embassy Wagon

making it so that your first native trade post also ships you an embassy wagon would do much to boost strategies around native outposts.

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This is such a good suggestion. I’m surprised no one replied this thread.

Maybe All the native TP can train the Native Embassy Travois (Americans) / Rickshaw (Asians) / Builder (Africans), and the First native TP the player constructs can automatically spawn 1 Travois/Rickshaw/Builder for free instead of shipping it.

It makes sense that you cannot get any Native Embassy more when you lose all the native TPs.
Also, in this way, the Settlers (and Envoy) will be no need to be able to build Native Embassy and will have more space on their 6*3 table which is full especially for Europeans. Only native American Villagers can keep being able to build Native Embassy since the Native Embassy is equivalent to Saloon and Artillery Foundry for them.

Since the Native Embassy has the construction limit, it could have a resource trickle (maybe wood) to encourage people to build it, just like the Saloon/Tavern. Moreover, the Native Embassy should have the regional looks, just like the TP. I don’t like the War Wagon or Sohei trained from a native American house.

Btw, the TP on Asian maps may need a new look, especially for the East Asians.
A traditional brick East-Asian-style house might suit them better than a wood or bamboo pavilion.
This is closer to the local architectural culture and makes TP more consistent with the style of the buildings next to it.

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I would say no unless you reduce the build xp of the native embassy to 0 cause otherwise that would mean a TP pay for its own wood cost + additional xp

To encourage people use native minor civ, why not? There is only 10 XP build bounty (as same as 1 Settler) for a Native Embassy, which is not a big bonus.

Especially, the player can only receive it at the first time they build native TP, which means there is only 1 free Native Embassy (10 XP build bounty) for a player in an entire game.

It doesn’t affect the balance at all.

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I don’t see it being too unbalanced as natives are really underused currently.

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Native Treaties: In addition to its current benefits, it gives you a cart that can build a native embassy. Embassies give more experience when building them.
Note: In case you haven’t already allied with a tribe before this card arrives, it will give you the corresponding warriors once you build the trading post the first time you actually build the trading post.
Nearly outdated stuff that could be useful. (Potential improvements) - #196 by OperaticShip743

This is my proposal for the use of native embassies. Another way to grant a native embassy.

It could be a passive income from the 4 main resources, this would simulate a form of trade between the native allies and your empire. (For Africans, instead of experience and coins, it will be more influence. For Asians, instead of experience and coins, export). (Like the ‘Sumptuary Laws’ card.)

I like that idea. Villagers will not need to build them.

huh I thought it was a 200 wood building, so 20 xp would actually be significant if you go for some sort of native treaty build, since you can just forward your opponent and spam natives immediately.

10 xp might be ok

Getting the native embassy was something the napoleonic era mod had as a feature. Surprised they didn’t care it though to this

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That was a bonus that belonged to a fan patch.

It helped the alliances a lot and it wasn’t overpowered at all.
Therefore there isn’t much to discuss about power level but how balanced that would be to all civilizations, because that idea was addressed to Legacy civilizations. Hausa, Ethiopia and Inca with that would be much more powerful than Dutch or Haudenosaunee.

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It could be available for civilizations that are not specialized in the use of natives. For example, the United States can already have a native embassy through the state that unblocks the Cree.

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French deserve this by design (natives specialized), even with an alliance (card) like incas.

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My idea is that All civs can get 1 Native Embassy Travois/Rickshaw/Builder free once the players built their first native TP, no matter if there is any card like the Tammany Festival (Cree) or American Alliance at the home city. In addition, people can train Native Embassy Travois/Rickshaw/Builder at native TP (and also TC if using the Tammany Festival (Cree) or American Alliance), and only native American Villagers can built Native Embassy by themselves.

For the French, their native bonus should be showed in other ways, such like the effect of Logistician is changed to ship 1 Military Wagon and 1 TP Wagon to encourage the player build a TP on the minor civ.

Some civ specializing the natives may make this mechanic stronger but actually it is okay.
Everyone has their own strengths. Just 1 free Native Embassy, no big deal.

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There could be exceptions as it happens with schooners that some do not have it. My point is that those who earn a native embassy wagon by other means don’t need another one.

However, if my suggestion where the ‘Native Treaties’ card grants a native embassy wagon were applied, I think there would no longer be any balance issues, because in theory each player could potentially gain 2 native embassy wagons.

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Um…
People may use the card but no native TP, or may build a native TP but have not use the card yet, so both the 2 way have to provide a Native Embassy Travois respectively.

To the player not only using the card but also building a native TP, it is actually fine just getting 2 Native Embassy Travois. They have to do more things to get 2 free Native Embassies, and there will be more native units at Embassy, which means the players indeed need more Embassies if they wanna use natives.

No. According you said, people may get 3 free Native Embassy when they not only use the Native Treaties and the the cards like the Tammany Festival (Cree) or American Alliance but also build a native TP. But you even do not support the 2nd free Native Embassy for the people using the the cards like the Tammany Festival (Cree) or American Alliance and building a native TP.

On the other hand. People do not need a free Native Embassy in Native Treaties, since there is destined to have a free Native Embassy once the player build a native TP. The reason that the cards like the Tammany Festival (Cree) or American Alliance can also ship a free Native Embassy since the player may have no native TP.

Well, that was a suggestion I made just before you revived this forum, to improve the card itself. However, why not leave both options? XD

The amount of wagon shipments in the game is getting really excessive and I don’t think we need more.

Native Embassies should just be the building that is placed on the socket for settlements and Trade Posts should be limited to trade routes only. That would allow more flexibility in establishing alliances without needing to spend so many resources. It would also limit redundancy for the African civs who also have the Palace for training their age-up alliance units.

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You are right that it is being used a lot, but this was already there from the ‘napoleonic era’ mod and was a great addition to the game.

Also this would not be a dominant mechanic as it happens with the United States, it would only happen a couple of times.

Thanks for making me realize that I was misspelling the word ‘wagon’ in Spanish XD. My spelling is not very good. The translator has not corrected me this time.

I meant, the free Native Embassy is unnecessary in the Native Treaties.
There is already one.

Do you notice that the Native Embassy Travois/Rickshaw/Builder is already existing in the game?
That is no anything “more” because there it is for a long time.

This is both a pointless change and kills the original purpose of the Native Embassy, which is to let the player decide where to train native units.

Also, the most important purpose of training the Native Embassy Travois/Rickshaw/Builder only by the native TP (and TC if using the cards like the Tammany Festival (Cree) or American Alliance) is to save more space in the table for settlers/villagers, except for native American civs.

Do you know that you still can train native units without Native Embassy? The cost problem you mentioned here is also pointless.

I don’t think you’re getting what I’m saying.

I’m not saying wagon units shouldn’t exist, there are definitely places where they make sense. However, their use should be limited to where they are actually needed. Things like State Capitol wagons or Africans training tons of different wagons out of their Town Centers are unnecessary and gimmicky.

The original purpose of the Native Embassy should not be eliminated. Embassies facilitate relations on both the sending and receiving ends. Building it on a socket is your delegation to the Natives and building it in your town is you hosting their delegation. This actually makes more sense than the unrelated dual function that Trade Posts currently serve.

Trade Posts are balanced around the benefit you get from a trade route. The early game benefit from allying with a Native Settlement is not as great and is harder to justify. If you decouple trading and allying, you can make the building used to ally cost more in line with the benefit that it provides. Native alliances require a lot of wood to make use of, so even a small cost difference can mean a couple more native units to make the alliance worth it.

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The Wagon/Travois/Rickshaw/Builder is essentially the unitization of the building. Only after unitization can buildings do more things like units, such as moving, being shipped, and becoming rewards from mechanics.

Here it is a reward that encourages players to use natives, it is needed.

the original purpose of the Native Embassy in the game design logic (to let the player decide where to train native units) is more important at all.

Any cultural and historical suggestion should serve the entertainment of the game first.
It is a game, an entertainment product, not a textbook of culture and history.

You have the right to advocate replacing the native TP with Embassy to stick to your cultural justification, but you still have to think of another way to to let the player decide where to train native units, otherwise you’re just degenerating the game. And doing so will not save table space, and may even cost more space, while European civilizations have run out of space for already.

The cost problem of natives is mainly about the cost of TP and the warriors. The Embassy is cheap (100 wood) and unnecessary, so it is nothing to do with the cost problem of natives actually.

Not to mention that an Embassy is given by the first native TP for free so there is even no cost problem.

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