Fixing treaty balance

But that upgrade becomes the situation worse cause every civ can get it, not just indians and otto. I prefer playing other maps instead


thing is that for unit training speed absolute train time is more important than relative train time. waiting 5 seconds while your opponent waits 2 seconds is fine, waiting 10 seconds is harsh.

I could see adding a infinite 5000 wood mango grove to Native civs and India, maybe a few others, but having a civ run out of a resource type is what finally end the game. with A steady wood supply games might never end. To start with one would be OP, civs that want/ need it should have to make a deck choice for it. For Aztecs and Iros/Haudes that would be worth it. at the very lest all civs should have to use a card slot to use it, and keep at 5000 wood.

But then question is, with India would you rather have 1300 wood that gathers very qucikly and send more shipments? or send a mango grove less often but have to devote a good chunk of eco for it? hmm… I think 1300 wood crates works fine for them and I might be hard to change that, even though I do love sending in urumi, I might use it.

Slower train time is fine. That should be an Andes only thing. India trains inf slightly faster than Otto does Jans, Ottos benefit is they have a spammable unit to fill in the gaps when Jannies are low. India really just needs faster camel train time to spam out a unit when the enemy gets overly dependent on skirms and inf production cant keep up… giving Sowars a 1.5 bonus vs artillery might not be bad either. But otherwise no one should really make camels in TR. but India lacking any fast train unit is the problem, so give them a very weak one.

Definitely doesn’t make it worse. The slight increase is more impactful for civs with slow training.

An infinite mango grove is a bad idea because it can be used as an indestructible wall.

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One thing to consider is India fights way differently. 2 Euro civs will fight to hold a line, continually sending in units until one side collapses and then a great deal of map can be gained.

India and to some extent Otto, fight in waves, so they will fight a battle, and lose an inch, but then a massive strong army will pop, and then gains 2 inches of space, then, they die down a little and retreat an inch, and then take another 2 more…

How to achieve this… when your at like 90 pop and declining, double click on all barracks to train 1 sepoy (if you need gurka be more selective, you do not need that many gurka) now you have may have several barraks ready to pop half an army if needed. Then then getting down a little more, start a mahout or siege ele, and so forth, then when one unit type is about to pop, fill all the existing spaces with that unit, while retreating some on the front line, then have them meet together again. Start the process over, and when at 199 pop send in urumi if you can.

It also helps to not use 100 vills once the treaty starts. You should have a good supply of wood, and lots of coin, so you really only need 70-80 to sustain food. The key is not to go overly greedy on the fur trade and get enough wood and have time for some food supply.

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then scrap it or give it HP.

They have a blockin area around them as torps have, so no problem.
I think that mangos arent needed for india thanks to 1300 crates, maybe as an age up thing with victory tower could work.
About aztecs, mangos are an indian bonus, so I dont think that is the best option. Maybe crates but I dont know if its too much having 1000coins too, that are a must for their eco.

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What is needed is to be able to access native peoples and trading posts equally and without restriction. I think this would be easy to do because the native villages are usually equitable.

Another thing that would be good for the treaty is to be able to build a wall on the trade route.

I agree with that why just not imperial ffa with high resources. Set the limit to 5 minutes to build some infrastructure and have at it.

What percentage plays treaty? It has to be a small pool.

There’s about 400 in ranked ladder. But maybe half my games are against people with only casual rating, so I’d guess there’s at least another 400 who have only been playing unrated.

If you dont play it is fine but dont come here to be toxic.
In treaty, players can use the full potential of the civ. Also in 5min you cant build a base, age up to imperial, train all your villagers and train an army. In treaty you have to know how to balance economy and military to not get drained.

Most supremacy players dont know how to fight in treaty


I once accidently Q’ed a treaty game. I lived to regret it so perhaps you are right

Because a large part of the challenge of treaty is booming as efficiently as possible. Which is why better players get higher scores at 40 mins, because they are better at booming and managing the economy, and not just the fighting side of the game.

Such true words !

Just because a supremacy takes less time its more popular.

But the Full-fledged extent of the game exists in treaty mode. and in DE IMO people are playing more of treaty games than in legacy.

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church card balancing

german church card changes 10% hp tp all units and 15% seepd with +10% cost for just dopples (10% all militry was so stupid )

france - church tech remove builoding cost increase (50% was too stupiud ) and it will open more strategy for france as their age 2 card choices are so jammpacked , its hard to choose church card over any other card right now

russian church tech give aditional 15% seige resistance to troops along with upgrade . russian troops due to low hp , are super suceptible to artilary demage , they cant even tank a single shot . from almost all artilary , not like other civs where trops can tank better . russia from all civ need seige resistance ( giving seige resistance to neafthaliya was stupid)

ottoman church card give no benifit but extra troops , may be add some age 4 tech in church card that can fix their late game .

map fixation -

along with inifnite wood mango grove/haceinda make players start with 10k gold mine and a large starting hunt , so map resourse balance dont screw up treaty game play ,

many maps has resourses condenced in certaian location that make spawn location decide ur boom.

also either make all natives be same or they should be on equal location from both teams .

lastly either make sure no team get accses to trade route or both have .

Wrong, ottoman church increases training speed for jans.

10k start gold mine is boring as hell.

Because the treaty allows civilization to progressively evolve.

As you progress, you gain experience and take metropolis cards that improve the economy and reserve the military upgrade cards for when you have used up all the economic cards. Starting in imperial would nullify all of this. And also for civilizations that advance of age with wonders / states / alliances they would lose all these benefits if they started in imperial.

If you reach the imperial age before 20 minutes you are doing things well (in case of being NR 40).

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I’m going to suggest something bold here.

Radically changing fulling mills just like how spanish gold was radically changed.

Fulling is treatment of wool basically cleaning it and making it useful as a product and nothing at all to do with food, make it so that Sheep goats and Lamas (BUT NOT COWS) also grant coin or wood when harvested in addition to food. Sheep and Goats have wool and so do alpaca (a breed of lama).

Also generally make livestock more accessable; lower cost of livestock pen maybe enable cows by default in fortress age and make ranching increase gathering speed.