Fixing treaty balance

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

i have sugesstion , there are feature like few things available to certain game mode .
can devs make certain fixaing for game mode specific ?

like when someone start a game in treaty mode ,

  1. every civ start with a mango grove with infinite wood . so no more late game wood issue on any map .
  2. every civ get 15 % unit train time boost , 25% for india and native civs ,
  3. no more native tech to train faster in treaty mode , as they make map like andes dominate treaty games
  4. civ specific changes for treaty mode , these changes only apply for treaty mode games .

these are the minimum balancing change that i can suggest without revamping a civ .
like 4a.abus and jan buff for treaty .jani hp and abus demange need buff
4b. may be increase wp limit from 10 to 13-15 , give otantin +0.5 multiplier vs heavy and cyote +0.5 multiplier vs skirmisher for aztec .
4c. either javelin rider stat nerf . or make then 2 pop
4d, somewhat (20-25%) higher export tickle rate and faster consulate army . becoz right now they are not of much use except china , also china run out of export very fast after 4-5 army . and janpan cant even overpop properly if they make sheeps thwmselves withput sacrificing eco for extra export
4e. unction effect is half for natives .
4f. no case shot for culverins for swedon , increase lands price by 20-30 gold
4g. increase cost of usa state militia like 10-15%
4h. german consulate bonus change from 20 to 15% and keshik range +1or 2 ( china is op due to eco supporting their cheap units , but i suggested a little cow booming nerf later )
4i. increase range of yamubuse (japanese range cav ) by 1-2 , right now japans weakness is losing culverin war . and nerf wonder hp bobus 10% to 7,5% , (after nerfing range attack to 10% now make it useless as !0% hp is always better choice )
4j. sterlet get +0.5 multiplier vs heavy and russian musk get either+0.25 multiplier vs mele or +0.1 mele resistance , right now russia is very weak vs strong mele infantry.
4k. royal guard status for german skirmisher , right now they r the weakest skirmisher in game .
4l. +0.1 range resistance for rytors as dutch. ( ± royal guard skirmiashir )
4m. buffing longbow stats , right now they cant stnad vs skirmisher on theiw own and they are not great at killing heavy infantry either like skiemisher , give them +0.5 or +1 multiplier vs heavy and little hp buff ,
4n. lakota warchief hp or warchief dance nerf by 10-15% and rifle riders get +2 range in compensasion.
4o. france need nerf to some cards , france is boderline op , very good skirmisher with good cav and
natives
may remove card that boost skirmisher and natives hp winderness warfare or nerf it to 10% and
nerf gribeauval system to 10% .
or may be nerfing some other cards might fix france , right now i feal those two cards are the most op
cards france have

  1. all acher type units get +0.5 multiplier vs heavy infantry as they dont get counter infantry tech . like long bow otantin
  2. starting mine of 10k gold and starting hunt with double food , in team game on certain map their is just not enough resourses to boom , often u get out of hunt or mine before getting age 5
  3. fullieng mill card from 300% to 250 or 225% , right now cow boom eco is too busted china is op becoz if it , it give civ like 40-50k extra resourses in 40 min , its a bit too much .

we can have these changes when someone play a game in treaty mode , so it might not affact supremecy game play .

altho most of the civ specific changes i suggested doesnt affact supremacy ,

edit
church card balancing

german church card changes 10% hp tp all units and 15% seepd with +10% cost for just dopples (10% all militry was so stupid )

france - church tech remove builoding cost increase (50% was too stupiud ) and it will open more strategy for france as their age 2 card choices are so jammpacked , its hard to choose church card over any other card right now

russian church tech give aditional 15% seige resistance to troops along with upgrade . russian troops due to low hp , are super suceptible to artilary demage , they cant even tank a single shot . from almost all artilary , not like other civs where trops can tank better . russia from all civ need seige resistance ( giving seige resistance to neafthaliya was stupid)

ottoman church card give no benifit but extra troops , may be add some age 4 tech in church card that can fix their late game .

map fixation -

along with inifnite wood mango grove/haceinda make players start with 10k gold mine and a large starting hunt , so map resourse balance dont screw up treaty game play ,

many maps has resourses condenced in certaian location that make spawn location decide ur boom.

also either make all natives be same or they should be on equal location from both teams .

lastly either make sure no team get accses to trade route or both have .

2

bad idea.

i admit i think andes is boring but this isnt the way.

that will only result in the mode becoming harder to get into, there is frankly zero reason to separate balance in this way, you can always just buff or nerf imperial age upgrades or change the homecity cards.

russia really isnt that bad, you just need to get it out of your head that you are playing an infantry civ, cause you aren’t.

dutch skirms are already one of the best, no need for a buff.

longbows are more than capable of fighting skirms one on one, in fact that is the main advantage of archers, the higher base dpm.

britain is fine in treaty, you have an amazing eco and all your most used units are practically royal guard and cheap, if brits have any issue its thier slow artillery train speed but the faction is pretty balanced as is.

you shouldnt use RR to begin with, lakota as a whole could need a few nerfs to units afaik.

france is probably 3rd best faction atm, yes they are strong but there are bigger issues atm.

no, they are not skirmishers.

no, also china is more than playable without cow eco. like you wanted to buff the UK but now you are giving them a massive nerf.

confusing people with numbers and techs changing between modes is not a good idea.

4 Likes
3

I dont know why this map is tooo much played, I dont think that is a balanced one, inca upgrade makes greater the differences between civs that lack train time upgrades. Also they give too much natives, any civ that cant hold natives training is dead in this map.

In my opinion migrants upgrade shouldnt benefit some civs. The best example of this is japan, devs removed the effect of good faith agrements over hatamotos but added this one, becoming a worse situation than on legacy.

1 Like
4

At least we all agree that Andes is one of the most boring map in the game and unfortunatly that’s the most played map in treaty :frowning:

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5

andes is played just it give training boost to civs thnat need it badly making thwem viable .

6

I think that is worse cause everyone get the upgrade. I think that atlas, darfur, chaco or mexico are better.
Also a civ without the capacity to train natives has a very hard time there

7

my favorite treaty map is actually himalayas i love to fight around the maps peaks.

2 Likes
8

It would be good if other maps than Andes are played more often. The issue, like others have said, is that for some civs the faster training tech is essential, eg Otto and India.

For wood, most maybe all civs now have infinite wood age 4 shipment I think, or other ways for infinite wood eg the card for farms gathering wood for Hausa.

9

But that upgrade becomes the situation worse cause every civ can get it, not just indians and otto. I prefer playing other maps instead

2 Likes
10

thing is that for unit training speed absolute train time is more important than relative train time. waiting 5 seconds while your opponent waits 2 seconds is fine, waiting 10 seconds is harsh.

11

I could see adding a infinite 5000 wood mango grove to Native civs and India, maybe a few others, but having a civ run out of a resource type is what finally end the game. with A steady wood supply games might never end. To start with one would be OP, civs that want/ need it should have to make a deck choice for it. For Aztecs and Iros/Haudes that would be worth it. at the very lest all civs should have to use a card slot to use it, and keep at 5000 wood.

But then question is, with India would you rather have 1300 wood that gathers very qucikly and send more shipments? or send a mango grove less often but have to devote a good chunk of eco for it? hmm… I think 1300 wood crates works fine for them and I might be hard to change that, even though I do love sending in urumi, I might use it.

Slower train time is fine. That should be an Andes only thing. India trains inf slightly faster than Otto does Jans, Ottos benefit is they have a spammable unit to fill in the gaps when Jannies are low. India really just needs faster camel train time to spam out a unit when the enemy gets overly dependent on skirms and inf production cant keep up… giving Sowars a 1.5 bonus vs artillery might not be bad either. But otherwise no one should really make camels in TR. but India lacking any fast train unit is the problem, so give them a very weak one.

12

Definitely doesn’t make it worse. The slight increase is more impactful for civs with slow training.

13

An infinite mango grove is a bad idea because it can be used as an indestructible wall.

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14

One thing to consider is India fights way differently. 2 Euro civs will fight to hold a line, continually sending in units until one side collapses and then a great deal of map can be gained.

India and to some extent Otto, fight in waves, so they will fight a battle, and lose an inch, but then a massive strong army will pop, and then gains 2 inches of space, then, they die down a little and retreat an inch, and then take another 2 more…

How to achieve this… when your at like 90 pop and declining, double click on all barracks to train 1 sepoy (if you need gurka be more selective, you do not need that many gurka) now you have may have several barraks ready to pop half an army if needed. Then then getting down a little more, start a mahout or siege ele, and so forth, then when one unit type is about to pop, fill all the existing spaces with that unit, while retreating some on the front line, then have them meet together again. Start the process over, and when at 199 pop send in urumi if you can.

It also helps to not use 100 vills once the treaty starts. You should have a good supply of wood, and lots of coin, so you really only need 70-80 to sustain food. The key is not to go overly greedy on the fur trade and get enough wood and have time for some food supply.

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15

then scrap it or give it HP.

16

They have a blockin area around them as torps have, so no problem.
I think that mangos arent needed for india thanks to 1300 crates, maybe as an age up thing with victory tower could work.
About aztecs, mangos are an indian bonus, so I dont think that is the best option. Maybe crates but I dont know if its too much having 1000coins too, that are a must for their eco.

1 Like
17

What is needed is to be able to access native peoples and trading posts equally and without restriction. I think this would be easy to do because the native villages are usually equitable.

Another thing that would be good for the treaty is to be able to build a wall on the trade route.

19

I agree with that why just not imperial ffa with high resources. Set the limit to 5 minutes to build some infrastructure and have at it.

20

What percentage plays treaty? It has to be a small pool.

22

There’s about 400 in ranked ladder. But maybe half my games are against people with only casual rating, so I’d guess there’s at least another 400 who have only been playing unrated.